2005 Cummins Run-Away

[danklumpe]

Ok so this was the first set of injectors I have replaced on this engine. They were reman injectors off ebay. The reason for replacement was lack of power. So pulled the new and replaced one at a time making sure to have all the copper washers as the old came out. Installed the new injectors and turned over the engine. Every rough running and if you touch the fuel pedal the engine revs high and pours the smoke and won't come down in rpm's. Pulled the set again to double check install and after install again same results. Rough idle and touch the pedal engine revs high and will not come down unless you shut the engine off. I'm at a loss of ideas of what could be going on. Thanks for the help!!!

 

[GrantP]

They were reman injectors off ebay.

Hate to say it but you may have just answered your own question, remans have been notorious for problems.

 

[danklumpe]

Hate to say it but you may have just answered your own question, remans have been notorious for problems.

Thought the same thing just checking if any other ideas are out there. Thinking of taking them out, again, to be bench tested

 

[Wayne M.]

Get yourself a refund. You didn’t send your cores back- did you?
Get real Bosch units. Geno’s garage is where I’m going when it’s my turn.

 

[TCDiesel]

Buying HPCR Injectors on Ebay is equal to Buying used condoms.

 

[p-Bar]

Go buy the BBI's .

 

[TCDiesel]

BBI's are BMS, NON-OEM spray patterns. Over priced and overrated.

 

[cerberusiam]

BBI's are BMS. Over priced and overrated.

BMS doesn't provide injectors and their nozzles are questionable at best. There is NOTHING questionable about a BBI injector.

The difference between BBI and new Bosch is the core charge. BBI has no core charge and quality is substantially higher.

Get real Bosch units. Geno’s garage is where I’m going when it’s my turn.

Why buy remans when you can source new at almost the same cost, or less at times. Reman injectors in these engines is just taking unnecessary chances.

 

[TCDiesel]

Bosch Gen-New (Bosch Reman) are equal to virgins I've sold 1000s of each, TC has Never replace more than 1 or 2 Injectors on a Set of 6-8 EVER. Last time I checked its 1 warrantied Injector per 3000 Sold, and out of that 3000 how many were mis-handle by installer?

NO one in the world I know of makes better Nozzles/Injectors than Bosch. LMBO on the Quality, Bosch has Million+ HPCR Injectors lasting 5000hrs or more.

Any other Injector that does NOT originate with Bosch is risky IMO, You simply DO NOT know of its quality....Bosch has spent $Millions on QC plus the facilities.

Even at that Sellers are cross breading, molesting, harvesting, who knows...I will give BBI a high rating but its not higher than Bosch origin.

I'm with you on BMS (Bosch Motors Sports) Why in the heck Did Bosch Corp let BMS get to on-road selling is just stupid, they stab all their Franchise sellers in the Back, plus its now has us ALL under the EPA Microscope.

 

[Ozymandias]

BBI's are BMS, NON-OEM spray patterns. Over priced and overrated.

That's correct, but at BBi you get a set of 6 hand selected, perfectly matched injectors.
To my knowledge this is the only vendor that does this.

 

[TCDiesel]

That's correct, but at BBi you get a set of 6 hand selected, perfectly matched injectors.
To my knowledge this is the only vendor that does this.

Just marketing, Bosch will NOT sell anyone the technogly to manufacture spec/calibrate to their spec's. That's NOT legally bound to their agreements. like I said it would take $millions in up front cost. They do sell equipment to test, But again its highly regulated and monitored, and if BOSCH finds out that under table info is being exchange , its 1 and your done.

 

[Ozymandias]

You dont know that HE is from Bosch right?

 

[TCDiesel]

They all say that...but from Bosch means WHAT? and if anyone that's important!!!!! Bosch has NO compete clauses....

 

[Ozymandias]

Bosch has NO compete clauses....

Yep and thats why I can't say more about it.
I had a special order for my injectors, so i got more background then I asked for.
Its difficult.

 

[TCDiesel]

Ozy, I here Ya, and BBI product are Good, its just a big leap to claim there the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Ozymandias]

Ozy, I here Ya, and BBI product are Good, its just a big leap to claim there the best thing since sliced bread.

Well, yes, like you and I said, its Bosch BMS and matched.
What could be better.

 

[cerberusiam]

Bosch Gen-New (Bosch Reman) are equal to virgins

Not even close on balance, quantity, and operation. The Bosch remans are all over the board in all 3 important categories. I just figure with every set of Bosch remans going to warranty 2 of them because they are either so far out of balance to start with or they will develop issues in 3 months. Oh, you can run them and you probbaly won't have catastrophic failures but that does not mean they are "good" by a long shot.

Even on NEW production run injectors at least 2 out of a random selected set are going to be out of balance somewhere in the pressure range tests. Granted I have seen this on ONLY 2 new sets and 3 reman sets, but, in a small sample to have that MANY obvious issues is less than impressive.

Once you put in a set of BBI's and start comparing function and performance EVERY other injector, including Bosch production run ones, are nothing but shoddy imitations. BBI injectors are not hand selected, they hand BUILT to exacting standards 3 times as tight tolerances as Bosch new and it is VERY noticeable.

Considering Martin and associates at BBI developed and engineered the CR injectors for Bosch you will not find a more knowledgeable group nor is there a better product available including Bosch new. From setup to nozzle orifice engineering to proprietary design changes to QC there is nothing that is close. If you want the best, BBI. If you want adequate Bosch new.

 

[TCDiesel]

BMS Sucks........I have lost count on how many road engine Pistons and rings that have cost owners $1000s in early engine repairs. Yep it doen't happen over night it takes time and miles but those NON-OEM nozzles take their toll $$$$$$

How are you measuring those Spec's and tolerances, Any reasonable person can answer that question.....and Bosch is NO way going to allow the equipment to be purchased...

And I can claim all the rest of this year and into ALL next on Balancing and calibrations.....anyone person with insight would know Calibrations and balance rate are very forgiving, its just another selling fakeness to reach into buyers wallet to enhance the seller bank account.

Cerb your comments are NO different than Mileage claims with Tuning. tuning may add some mileage but its NOT going to change the laws of motion and forces.

You want some facts we have Customers with over 1 million+ miles with OEM Bosch still running strong with recommended Injector Changes. Same rotating mass running strong, any reasonable person that's not bias wouldn't even care about the platform some sell on. it the facts that count.

If Bosch generally finds products are better then they manufacturing that Person or company could name their Price $$$$$$$$$ and Bosch would pay it.

 

[cerberusiam]

BMS Sucks........I have lost count on how many road engine Pistons and rings that have cost owners $1000s in early engine repairs. Yep it doen't happen over night it takes time and miles but those NON-OEM nozzles take their toll $$$$$$

BMS products are definitely less than stellar, but, how much of that is the injector balance and setup? Considering balance and injector setup actually make a CR injector "good" or just "adequate", and, this is being done by shops that have less experience and knowledge than needed it tends to show the short comings. As far as nozzles go, VCO nozzles are not the best out there. The SAC is a much stronger, longer lasting, and more forgiving design demonstrated by that is ALL that is used anymore and all that was used in the 5.9 CR's EXCEPT the engines used in LD trucks. It was all an appeasement to the environmental nazi's, had nothing to do with actually efficacy and MTBF.

Anybody with engine experience knows balance and calibrations makes a huge difference in engine feel and by extension it MUST make a difference in efficacy and life expectancy. C'mon, unbalanced injection introduces harmonics that are detrimental, it is the nature of a rotating mass. The smoother the better for both efficacy and wear. We spend time and $$ making sure assembly's are balanced, fueling is balanced, etc, on gas or diesel engines for a reason. Those are the FACTS. What is forgiving is the Cummins engine that they last as long they do with some less than great injectors in them. Try to do that on the OTHER brands and they routinely puke their guts.

The torsional harmonics an an ISB are terrible anyway, it just hammers the drive train into submission. Letting additional imbalances and harmonics into a less than adequate drive train to save a few bucks is just silly unless one just doesn't care about preservation. If this is the case then by all means run it into the ground and don't worry. Some of us tend to want to maintain and preserve a bit longer than the normal throttle jockey.

If Bosch generally finds products are better then they manufacturing that Person or company could name their Price $$$$$$$$$ and Bosch would pay it.

Bosch has a patent and corner on the market, they could care less about improvements. They would likely buy it and lose it rather than use it. It is all about planned obsolescence and market share to big companies. Bosch will gladly take your money for parts, machines, etc, as long as you can assure them you aren't competing in their space. They really could care less about BBI as they are performance oriented, not mass stock production. That is what got BMS in trouble when they were marketing production run Bosch injectors as their own product at a cheaper price than Bosch wanted. They marketed a stock marine injector as BMS50 or BMS100 and that started cutting into profits for Ma Bosch.

As for testing, not hard when someone has a decent testing machine and software and knows how to use them. Far from outrageous mileage claims, pretty easy to document the differences if one wants to spend the time and money.

 

[TCDiesel]

Cerb you have some good points, No need to go back and fourth.

Bosch and cornered market is just Not So... they have to stay on their game and Because they have allowed CORP to make bad decisions it hurt the entire Diesel industry.

They lost the GM D-Max Contract and it costs $4Billion in contracted cost losses. Rumor has it they are returning to the New D-Max engine in 2022.