-30 below, How do I keep the fuel flowing?

[glmoore001]

I am going to have to drive in -30 degree weather tonight and tomorrow. How can I keep the fuel from gelling?
I am running Power Service to keep it flowing right now, but have no idea if that will keep it fluid at these temps.
Thanks... Gary

 

[DavidC]

Might want to pickup some 911 additive to be on the safe side. I would think the appropriate dose of power service will work even maybe overdose it. Not that many options.

Dave

 

[fest3er]

Off the cuff, winterized #2 should be good down to around 0F. A double dose of anti-gel should then get it down to around -40. And as David said, bring some P/S 911, Amsoil Diesel Recovery, or some such with you. At the first sign of 'chugging' or 'missing', stop and pour a full bottle of recovery into the tank and wait for it to clear.

One winter, I filled up on US23 near the MI/OH border and I neglected to put anti-gel in it. The next day I found it wasn't winterized; it was nearly solid at -17F. Engine ran just long enough to pull into my brother's garage. A couple hours in there with a propane heater under the tank finally cleared it up enough to hit the road. Had no troubles the rest of the day on the interstates running 70MPH; it stayed that cold all day.

 

[Shiner]

Double dose of the power service or other anti gel and will be fine as fest3er said.

 

[JR]

I always carry a spare set of filters and a quart of Schaeffer's Hot Line when on the road. When fuel starts to gel the filter is generally the place where fuel stops flowing, it catches the waxy paraffin particles and plugs the filter. Then you are either changing the filter or warming it up, warming it is pretty difficult to do so on the side of the road.

 

[Ozymandias]

Does the Gen2 lack of a filter heater unit?

 

[DavidC]

Does the Gen2 lack of a filter heater unit?

Not sure of the all the 2nd gen locations but yes my 99 has a heating element in the filter head.

 

[GAmes]

Does the Gen2 lack of a filter heater unit?

This is why I seldom respond to posts without a signature. If it is a 12 valve the heater is prior to the lift pump and is a common failure point. Two quotes from Joe G who wrote an excellent article about the 12 valve truck's fuel system.

"The next thing that may leak air is the fuel heater. If the fuel relay or the fuel temperature sensor goes bad the fuel heater may be
stuck on and burn up. You usually can’t tell by looking at it if this happens."


"The fuel heater is actually worthless. Just a problem waiting to happen. It does not help to start in
cold weather. There is about a quart of fuel between the fuel heater and the injectors. The fuel
filter is full of cold fuel. So are all the lines, the lift pump, and the injection pump. So when the
truck is started it is started with cold fuel. It takes a lot of pumping with the starter to fill the fuel
filter when it is changed. It would take that much pumping plus some to get warm fuel from the
fuel heater to the injectors. I recommend removing it and throwing it away."

I removed mine years ago and had no issues starting the truck while in Canada last winter. Never saw -30, but did see -10 and lower several times.

 

[JR]

The OP posted in the 98.5-02 section so unless he did so in error it is not a 12 valve

And yes they do have a heater in the filter housing.

The filter is generally the first place the flow of fuel stops. Think about the resistance of a 5/16 or 3/8 line compared to a roughly 10 micron filter. This is the reason for the heater, not to prevent gelling in the lines between the filter and the IP but to help keep it fluid going through the filter.
-30*F and colder can wreak some bad juju on diesel fuel. ASTM recommends (not mandates, recommends) fuel be climatized to the 3 coldest days out of 30. This is nothing more than an average and again, nothing more than a recommendation. I'll say it again for context. There is no requirement. Any small amount of water in fuel and/or extreme colder than average temps or improperly climatized fuel can and will plug a filter quick. I've had to spin the filters off of our older cranes in the past and thaw them out at -25*F and colder. Keep in mind i buy fuel from the same place the outfit i work for does and have been doing so for the last 20 years. The only difference is i treat my fuel in the winter with Schaeffer's and my truck has fuel heaters on the filter. I had two gen 2's with over 500k miles between the two and a fair amount of those miles in cold weather.So I would disagree with the notion they are worthless. They won't save you from every fuel related problem but definitely serve a purpose.

 

[GAmes]

I can't count the number of times that posts have been in the wrong section. If a signature was present it would save everyone some trouble.
Your filter heaters might be the greatest thing since sliced bread. It is the 12 valve heaters that are worthless.
For the record, the only time I use a fuel additive is if I buy fuel in the south and am going north in the winter. I've never added anything to fuel I bought while in the north country. Never had any reason to do otherwise.

 

[petersonj]

In the late 80's when I lived in Leadville, Colorado at 10,000 feet, I drove a 1984 Ford E150 passenger van that I had put a Cummins 4BTA into. I worked at Copper Mountain Ski Resort. A fuel supplier in Leadville supplied all of Copper Mountain's diesel fuel and always made an excellent blend for wintertime use. All the years I worked there we never had a fuel gelling issue and most of the equipment had no fuel heaters.

One time I made a trip to Crested Butte, Colorado (near Gunnison) to set up a future training seminar. It was early February when I started my trip in the van. My van had two factory fuel tanks. I left Leadville with each tank about half full of good winter blend fuel from the above mentioned source - no additives. The first half of the trip is on the east side of the continental divide down to Poncha Springs where you make the turn to cross over the divide.

On that particular day the temperatures on the east side of the divide stayed around 20 degrees above zero down to Poncha Springs where I stopped for fuel. On the other side of the divide, Gunnison was currently reporting 40 degrees below zero. I decided to fill only one tank and leave the other partially filled tank alone with the good winter blend fuel. It turned out later to be a very good decision.

I crossed the continental divide and as I started to descend into the broad valley approaching Gunnison, my thermometer was reading 38 below zero. Just before Gunnison, I turned north to head to Crested Butte and about ten miles later my van started losing power to point I pulled off of the road and the engine died. Gelled fuel. Not good.

I made one short attempt to restart. No surprise there when that didn't happen. Like KATOOM says, I was sure the fuel filter was being blocked by the forming paraffin and wax crystals. I decided to try something - I waited for ten minutes hoping that the engine block would conduct some of its heat through the filter housing and warm the fuel. Meanwhile, I switched over to the good fuel tank. It was hard making myself wait that ten minutes.

I hit the starter and the engine started right away and ran fine the rest of the trip. I made a point to let our fuel supplier know that I appreciated his quality blended fuel.

- John

 

[Shiner]

I can't count the number of times that posts have been in the wrong section. If a signature was present it would save everyone some trouble.
Your filter heaters might be the greatest thing since sliced bread. It is the 12 valve heaters that are worthless.
For the record, the only time I use a fuel additive is if I buy fuel in the south and am going north in the winter. I've never added anything to fuel I bought while in the north country. Never had any reason to do otherwise.

I had a fellow driver that thought blended fuel at station was enough. He learned the hard way, always treat your fuel when loitering in the cold. His truck jelled up, had to tow in to the shop to thaw out. Bosses were pissed, to say the least. If you know the supplier and trust their blending, that maybe fine. I trust in myself and error on the side of safety, howes or power service hasn't left me stranded yet.

 

[Joe Mc]

I always get my fuel across the Burlington Bristiol bridge in NJ (I live in PA) at the same dinky fuel stop on Rt. 130, kitty corner from a super Wawa. They only have one diesel pump with 2 hoses, one neck is large for rigs the other small. Although the toll is $3 to get back to PA and a 14 mile round trip (figure 1 gal fuel) I've never gotten a bad load since I've used this station, at least 15 years. At last fill up fuel was $2.83 while in PA the least expensive was $3.45 ($0.62/gal difference, ah yes PA land of taxes, potholes and jug handles!!!). Anyway 30 gals X $0.62 - $5.82 not only nets a total $12.78 savings but gets me a known good load of fuel and piece of mind. Around 03 I removed the stock LP and filter system, so no fuel heater for years. Although temps don't typically get into the minus' here for the past 8 or 9 years I've been using Hot Shots Secret EDT (Every Day fuel Treatment) and in the winter I use their Anti-Gelling additive. Even with the A/G additive I've had a few situations where the fuel wouldn't, or suddenly stopped flowing showing 0 psi on the feed pump gage, this I attribute to condensation in the tank IE water is heavier than fuel + freezing temps = piece of ice lodges in, or at the inlet of the pusher pump and fuel stops flowing. A few times the truck started up and then just started whopping at idle, most recently it was around 40* and I had fueled up the day before a planned 130 mile (one-way) trip early the next morning. This one (situation) was rather odd, I started the truck everything was fine = 22 psi on feed gage (plugged in, timer set from 2AM - 5:30AM as I planned to leave at 5AM) let it run for typical (this time of year) for about 10 mins, headed out to get coffee for the trip (less than a mile to the coffee stop), let it run while inside and headed to the PA TPK for my journey (about 5 miles to TPK entrance) all was fine = truck up to operating temp and all gages read normal. As I entered the TPK and started to come up to speed (75mph) I set the cruise and around 2 miles down the pike the truck started to buck a little, WTF!!! I noticed the feed gage was at "0 psi"!!!! I couldn't maintain speed and slowed to a point where I could pull over. Truck was whopping at idle and I knew something was obstructing fuel flow. I was lucky to be able to hobble to the next off exit and work my way home (about 10 miles) slowly. Arrived home and the truck was still idling as when I stopped on the TPK. Enter the garage and got the ½ quart of Diesel 911 I had forgotten to put inside the truck, dumped it into the tank and rolled down away from the house to the greenbelt in hopes that all that was wrong was a chunk of ice was somewhere in the lines. I literally sat for about 2 minutes watching the feed gage, it bobbled once then went right up to 22 psi and the idle was smooth as always.

All the above said, and to the point of this post, as well as in MHO, regardless of where you fuel up and/or what type of additive you regularly (or irregularly) use I'm a beleiver in keeping a quart of Diesel 911 in the cab when the temps are getting low. This stuff really gets you out of a possible fuel related jam! BTW I picked up 2 quarts and 1 is in the glove box as I type... I get it and understand that the 911 states (WTE) "it is not intended to be used as an anti-gel additive and is intended to help 're-liquify' fuel" and in my situations it has done just that!

My advice (being free and referring to my experiences) is to keep some 911 in the cab - as Foghorn Leghorn said "I keep my feathers numbered for just such occasions"... Also, BTW, when I arrived at my (130 mile) destination the temps were well below 0, I worked all day and the truck started and ran without a hitch. Also, the next morning, temps also well below 0, it fired right up, 22 psi on the gage and all went well the rest of the week and trip home.

Gilmore, I hope this helps in some way and keeps you from having to get towed to a "warm spot" to thaw out...

 

[glmoore001]

Well I don't know what to say about the signature, it was there at one time. I'm a paying member that has not logged on since summer and did not notice it was missing. I have not gotten any notifications on this post either for some reason. The truck is a 2001 24 valve with a Fass Pump hanging on the frame.
To update, The truck did gel Wednesday morning. It had gotten to -24 the night below and I was probably at 1 1/2 overdose on the Power Service mixture. It was idling in driveway, had run about 10 minutes when I heard it sputter and die. I went out, it started again then died with fuel pressure at zero. It was -30 last night, I finally located a large bottle of 911 yesterday, added the recommended amount to the tank, changed the filter with a 50/50 mixture of 911 and diesel. I waited about 2 hours. tried to start it and it did not happen. That was late last night.
it is supposed to be rainy and a high of 42 today so I'm pretty sure I'll get it back.
Thank you for your replies and I will reinsert signature.

 

[JR]

Bummer!

Now that you've got air in the system you will have to bleed the filters and line to the VP, then crack the injector lines while cranking. Do you still have the OEM filter canister or did you bypass it? If you can, pull all the filters and bring them in to some type of heat to thaw. Or if you have the time and its going to get warm, waiting works too.

Wouldn't hurt to throw a battery charger on either, between the cold weather and extra cranking kills batteries in a hurry. Need heat (grid heaters) and fast cranking speeds to start.

Good luck!

 

[Joe Mc]

Do you still have the factory filter housing (without filter) in place? Does your FASS have 2 filters, water separator and filter, or is it a single = just a filter? I'm perplexed as to why, after what you did with the 911 that it wouldn't fire back up for you... Only thing I can think is there must be ice somewhere that after running a bit the warmed up fuel returning to the tank loosens it and, still somewhat solid, it travels to a point and blocks fuel causing what's happening. This is an interesting one for sure... Subscribed

 

[JR]

Joe, I'm thinking he just has to bleed his lines out to get it going again.

As to why it gelled in the first place, this goes back to ASTM and average 3 coldest days out of 30. If -30 is 20 or 30 degrees colder than that then heavy dosing of fuel is mandatory despite what others will say. And that's assuming he didn't get a load of fuel with some water...

 

[Joe Mc]

JR, Agreed. Definitely has to be some water somewhere? And probably complicated with some gelling going on.
This is an interesting one for sure!