Radiant heat as a sole source.

[Wayne M.]

Hi all, considering a house that has hydronic radiant heat as s sole source. I’ve never seen this before, only as a supplement or add on to baseboard etc.
specifics.
It’s a single floor 2600 square foot house built in 1996, in New Jersey, and it has a tankless wall mounted furnace and 4 zones. Most of the house has laminate floors, and one or 2 rooms have carpeting. During my viewing, I cranked up the living room zone, and felt no real difference after 45 minutes. I went downstairs, and the furnace was working and the zone was hot.
This is a new unchartered thing for me, and I appreciate any experience or opinion. I’m considering purchasing, but this one thing has me a bit on edge.
Thanks in advance!

 

[TFucili]

Any pictures, Wayne? When we built our last house there in '94, we considered full radiant, but my HVAC guy nudged us toward hydronic baseboard, and we added radiant in the basement slab and the garage slab. Because radiant is very slow recovery, we also added a Modine hanging heater in the garage, that ran off its own zone on the boiler, and this would give quick recovery when the overhead doors were open, or if I was working in the garage. We went with an Energy Kinetics low-mass, spiral-wound boiler, which was locally manufactured, and was state of the art at the time. It had a domestic hot water holding tank that ran through a heat exchanger, and a larger radiant holding tank that had its own heat exchanger. As usual, I didn't answer your question, but a wall hung, tankless system in that climate, not that it's Minot or anything, sounds odd to me.

 

[Wayne M.]

Thanks TF, the boiler is dedicated to the radiant system, as there is a conventional hot water heater. Everything is on propane. I’m being quoted a decent fuel cost in winter.
I don’t have any pictures, and the boiler was a strange name I hadn’t heard of. The zone valves and pumps are all typical Honeywell.
There is a 2 car attached, and I hadn’t thought of that. Thanks for that angle.

 

[TFucili]

Depending where it's located, I can give you my HVAC guy's info for an opinion/evaluation. He is beyond sharp on boilers. Energy Kinetics actually used to use him as a troubleshooter sometimes.

LP can swing wildly when the market gets funky. How big is the tank? How remote is the access for the LP truck when the weather gets really ugly?

 

[jgillott]

We are talking commercial instead of home heating, but my YMCA here has radiant floor heat in both of it's very large locker rooms and shower facilities. For all of the years I've been on the board there, we have had absolutely no issues heating those areas even on the coldest of days. It's not quick recovery, but once it's up to temp, it is steady and even.

 

[Ozymandias]

Radiant heating is standard in Switzerland and the only system we use today.
Lived in it half of my life, best thing you can get.
Always warm feet.

To the thing you experienced- radiant heat is slow, I mean real slow, you set the room to the desired heat level and then wait 2 days or so if it fits, if not add or lower 2-3° at the settings and check again.

But, I just talked to Mike, the house needs good insulation, thight doors, thight windows.

 

[Wayne M.]

TF, it’s a 500 underground- right where I want to build a garage. About 25’ rear of the driveway. Is your guy in N.J.?
Justin and Ozy, thanks for the warm thoughts- pun intended. I’m leaning toward it being ok as long as the momentum is there.
I’m also envisioning an old Vermont Castings stove in front of the fireplace.

 

[jgillott]

TF, it’s a 500 underground- right where I want to build a garage. About 25’ rear of the driveway. Is your guy in N.J.?
Justin and Ozy, thanks for the warm thoughts- pun intended. I’m leaning toward it being ok as long as the momentum is there.
I’m also envisioning an old Vermont Castings stove in front of the fireplace.

I don't have a picture of it right at the moment, I remember posting one here before somewhere, but I have an old Atlanta Stove Works cast iron stove in our basement. Man does that thing throw the heat when you get it going.

It's too bad you live so far away, I have so much firewood, I don't know what to do with it here. More downed trees than I can even get to in a years time.

 

[Shiner]

Radiant is very good, is there a dedicated air conditioning and ventilation, if so, an electric coil could supplement for faster recovery, if needed.

 

[Wayne M.]

It's too bad you live so far away, I have so much firewood, I don't know what to do with it here. More downed trees than I can even get to in a years time.

Whelp, I guess I could do a banzai day trip!

When I was a kid, during the late ‘70’s energy crunch, my Dad set up a VC Vigilant on coal. It was still available until the mid 80’s around here. Nothing but good memories- even the shoveling. Lol. I’d jump at the chance to make that happen again.

 

[Wayne M.]

Radiant is very good, is there a dedicated air conditioning and ventilation, if so, an electric coil could supplement for faster recovery, if needed.

Yes there is a single zone air handler in the attic. I’d thought about using that to circulate air since the returns seem to be in the middle kitchen/ living area, which has a half vaulted ceiling.

 

[Shiner]

How are the taxes in Jersey vs NY?

 

[TFucili]

TF, it’s a 500 underground- right where I want to build a garage. About 25’ rear of the driveway. Is your guy in N.J.?
Justin and Ozy, thanks for the warm thoughts- pun intended. I’m leaning toward it being ok as long as the momentum is there.
I’m also envisioning an old Vermont Castings stove in front of the fireplace.

Yes, he is in NJ. My old neighbor went to Vermont and bought a soapstone stove, and that thing worked fantastic.

 

[Wayne M.]

How are the taxes in Jersey vs NY?

Pretty much on par in the metro area with N.J. having a better lifestyle IMHO. The more remote parts of NYS will be cheaper.
In N.J. our trucks are state inspection exempt. That’s just a little bonus.

 

[TFucili]

Is it still diesel powered and over 10K GVW to be exempt, Wayne?
They used to issue a "Self Inspected" sticker to put in the windshield for commercial stuff, then they went to no sticker. I got pulled over so many times in my '87 Ford/Binder for having no inspection sticker it was almost not worth it. The last time I can recall, I was delivering a pre-built shed to the governor's mansion, Drumthwacket, going along Rt 12 and NJSP stops me for no sticker. He figures out the reason, and we have a little chuckle about the building's destination, and he cuts me loose. WHEW! Good thing he didn't ask for my oversize load permit...

 

[Wayne M.]

I believe it’s over 8500, so 3/4 tons are out, but heavies are in. I’m not sure, I think it’s 18k and up for heavy. There are also private stations for inspections now, but you have to pony up.

 

[jhenderson]

This may or may not be helpful. 1st, a friend has baseboard heat. He ran sections of baseboard under his tile kitchen floor. When it’s single digits outside you can go barefoot in the kitchen. That’s simply radiant heat under the subfloor with the open basement stealing some of the heat. 2nd. I’ve done some repair work for an acquaintance in his garage. It’s got radiant heat in the cement floor. I’ve never been so comfortable working. Snow and ice evaporated leaving a nice dry floor for the creeper. It never seemed hot yet after you open and close the overhead door the garage immediately seemed warm again. All that material takes time to heat up, but it holds heat very well.
I have a propane fired tankless water heater for potable water in my home. It replaced a 40 gal tank type unit. I cut my propane bill by 40+ percent. A good tankless unit is quite efficient.

 

[Shiner]

This may or may not be helpful. 1st, a friend has baseboard heat. He ran sections of baseboard under his tile kitchen floor. When it’s single digits outside you can go barefoot in the kitchen. That’s simply radiant heat under the subfloor with the open basement stealing some of the heat. 2nd. I’ve done some repair work for an acquaintance in his garage. It’s got radiant heat in the cement floor. I’ve never been so comfortable working. Snow and ice evaporated leaving a nice dry floor for the creeper. It never seemed hot yet after you open and close the overhead door the garage immediately seemed warm again. All that material takes time to heat up, but it holds heat very well.
I have a propane fired tankless water heater for potable water in my home. It replaced a 40 gal tank type unit. I cut my propane bill by 40+ percent. A good tankless unit is quite efficient.

The efficiency of a tankless water heater is only realized if you don't stand in the shower long. It's only real savings is not keeping a tank of water warm for hours when not used. Most people tend to take longer showers as a result of unlimited hot water. A tankless also has a lag period from call for water to delivery to faucet, this is really noticeable if you turn water off and on, you will get a cold blast in between as most are fired by flow. In my rentals, I have several tankless units, as well as electric tank style(with timer switches), Lp tank style, natural gas tank style, the tankless units were for space constraints. They all work, but one must acclimate to the operational characteristics of each.

 

[jhenderson]

For a 40% reduction in propane used my wife and I acclimated quite quickly. And I bathe after work and then shower off the remnants.

 

[Shiner]

For a 40% reduction in propane used my wife and I acclimated quite quickly. And I bathe after work and then shower off the remnants.

Sounds like more of the savings was provided by your employer. Maybe? Loss from well insulated tank ain't what it once was. Maybe the old unit was faulty(or really OLD), as in lazy 'stat?
Have you factored in the yearly maintenance? Not hard, but is another cost. Tankless units have a place, but they are not the only option/consideration.