Ram brake controller ?

[Cummins12V98]

From what I remember I removed the pigtail from the box that said Continental that goes to the back of the truck and connected a harness from that to the MaxBrake and later a P3. If that makes no sense I could poke my head under there and report back.

No codes! Simply does not record any towing info.

 

[jhenderson]

Thanks. When the time comes, and it will be soon, I hope to have your good fortune. I’m thinking it’s possible that later models get the trouble code.

 

[sag2]

The factory controller lightly pulses the brakes when stopped. You can hear them if you have the truck running and listen near the trailer wheels. As Dan said the system uses Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) so you can't just look at voltage to diagnose. The tester I use is just a blower motor and fan wired to a 7 way plug. When you plug it in it senses the brake circuit and the controller starts to operate.
Before the trip to CMEP this summer I replaced all the brakes on the trailer. Even adjusted properly they did not work well for at least a few hundred miles, and another adjustment. I pulled the self adjusters off and went with manual adjust this time.

 

[jhenderson]

As I said” actual road tests”. Trailer hooked up and test equipment in the 2nd receptacle.
Why remove the self adjusters? You can still manually adjust them just the same as you could self adjusting automotive drum brakes from the 60s and 70s.

 

[AH64ID]

Spent some time in the truck this weekend and was thinking about this thread, and the ITBC.

I have 3 trailers that all have tandem Al-Ko 5200lb axles with 12x2" brakes. All 3 react differently with the OEM controller.

This weekend I was towing one of the trailers that was at 10,300lbs on the axles and it's brakes required lower gain than my other trailers, and seemed to brake a littler harder too. It doesn't even have the newest brake shoes of the bunch. I also never felt it reduce voltage below 30 mph, and once I got to the dirt portion had to turn the gain down more at low speed.

It does make me think that trailer wiring plays a key role in the ITBC operation, even if it's not bad enough for other controllers to recognize.

 

[GCroyle]

Interesting any chance to take a fresh look at the trailer end plug?

My rig had the V shaped connector ends in the molded plug. No major corrosion just tarnish(?) one thread on airforums discussed the 7 way trailer end plug and IIRC the guy from best convertor suggested that the flat fixed blade like the Pollak connector uses was top dog. Avail as plastic or metal housing. I installed the metal version several years ago.

Otherwise you have two spring like connectors.

I found some metal Pollak and bought like 6 to share with my camping buddies.

 

[AH64ID]

Interesting any chance to take a fresh look at the trailer end plug?

My rig had the V shaped connector ends in the molded plug. No major corrosion just tarnish(?) one thread on airforums discussed the 7 way trailer end plug and IIRC the guy from best convertor suggested that the flat fixed blade like the Pollak connector uses was top dog. Avail as plastic or metal housing. I installed the metal version several years ago.

Otherwise you have two spring like connectors.

I found some metal Pollak and bought like 6 to share with my camping buddies.

2 are at home, and one is in the mountains. I'll compare the 3 of them as time allows and report back.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Use DiElectric grease.

 

[jhenderson]

Spent some time in the truck this weekend and was thinking about this thread, and the ITBC.

I have 3 trailers that all have tandem Al-Ko 5200lb axles with 12x2" brakes. All 3 react differently with the OEM controller.

This weekend I was towing one of the trailers that was at 10,300lbs on the axles and it's brakes required lower gain than my other trailers, and seemed to brake a littler harder too. It doesn't even have the newest brake shoes of the bunch. I also never felt it reduce voltage below 30 mph, and once I got to the dirt portion had to turn the gain down more at low speed.

It does make me think that trailer wiring plays a key role in the ITBC operation, even if it's not bad enough for other controllers to recognize.

Funny you should draw that conclusion without even looking at the brakes on all 3 trailers. That’s before addressing the fact that voltage is voltage. 6 or 7 volts is the same no matter what the trailer wiring or brakes look like. Better brakes may feel better with sub par voltage but it’s still sub par voltage. Feel tells you little. Hook up the described test equipment and the results don’t lie.

 

[GCroyle]

2 are at home, and one is in the mountains. I'll compare the 3 of them as time allows and report back.

You’ll figure something out and write a how to on chasing a brake circuit rundown.

 

[AH64ID]

Funny you should draw that conclusion without even looking at the brakes on all 3 trailers. That’s before addressing the fact that voltage is voltage. 6 or 7 volts is the same no matter what the trailer wiring or brakes look like. Better brakes may feel better with sub par voltage but it’s still sub par voltage. Feel tells you little. Hook up the described test equipment and the results don’t lie.

You really have a hard time reading posts, don’t you.

Can you show me where I said I hadn’t looked at the brakes on all 3? Please, I’d love to see these words you put in my mouth.

Anything else you want to tell I did, or didn’t do, based on an inability to read/comprehend a post? Don't think this is the first time, it’s kinda your MO on here... and not just with me.

Volts are volts, but volts at the plug and volts at the magnets are 2 different things. If there is a significant drop from plug to magnet then there is an issue with the trailer wiring... an issue that can be masked by a different controller but that’s just a bandaid and not really addressing the issue.

 

[jhenderson]

1st, we all know you didn’t pull all the brakes for inspection without saying so in your reference. 2nd. No controller can mask a voltage drop from plug to brake unit. That’s ridiculous on its face. The controller puts voltage to the plug. It has no ability to overcome any deficiencies between that plug and the brake magnet.
Try again, but this time think before you type.

 

[dieselshadow]

Here's a member showing and sharing his experience and knowledge as much as possible, and yet he's slammed for it. He's always tried to help other as much as possible. That's always been the TDR way. There's absolutely no need for this drama. That belongs on FB. Please act like an adult and respect others here. If you can't, maybe you should stay on FB?

 

[AH64ID]

1st, we all know you didn’t pull all the brakes for inspection without saying so in your reference.

You have one of these by your keyboards, don't you?

Again, not the first time you make large ASSumptions with zero facts... that or your the worlds worst stalker.

2nd. No controller can mask a voltage drop from plug to brake unit. That’s ridiculous on its face. The controller puts voltage to the plug.
It has no ability to overcome any deficiencies between that plug and the brake magnet.

Would you like a link to a lesson in voltage drop with faulty wiring, or can you find it yourself?

BLUF: More voltage at the plug means more voltage to the magnet, if there is faulty wiring it will take higher voltage to overcome that.

Try again, but this time think before you type.

You should heed your own advice, as pointed out largely in your last 2 posts.


We know you can't listen to anything anyone else has to say, but @dieselshadow has some sound advice there. If FB isn't your thing, then say hi to Mr. Barlow at the diner.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

jhenderson, "...this time think before you type". Please do the same.

First off, voltage at the magnet is a reference to be taken at the same time you measure anywhere else. That becomes very difficult when moving a trailer down the road. That measurement would be called voltage drop. That will tell you if there is a wiring issue. Amperage is what we need to measure if we care about brake application. Please don't always feel like you need to argue or contradict someone. They are just trying to help. Regarding "...6 or 7 volts is the same no matter what..." Is it the same if you are measuring straight DC voltage or is it different if you are measuring something doing PWM (think varying AC)? Do we care? How does that affect amperage at the magnet? If you have a brake controller that isn't doing PWM, with the same output voltage of 6-7 volts (assuming we don't care about amperage) will that work much better than the PWM version? A brake controller that only uses the internal decelerometer to apply brake amperage, how does it know to keep the trailer brakes applied when stopped on a hill so you don't start rolling forward or backwards because the trailer brakes are not applied and the truck wheels don't have enough traction to not slide?? Or does it not do that and you will slide? (Maxbrake and brakesmart have different inputs). Food for thought.

AH64ID - I'd be interested to know what amps are being drawn on your magnets for your different trailers. Or, is there a difference in resistance between the various trailers. A newer trailer I have has the "crimp into a wire" connector for the brakes. One isn't making good contact so that one brake isn't working properly. Yes, resistance will show it to be fine but it isn't passing current.

I know that a sitting still check connected to a newer truck with a ITBM will be different than going down the road, and that will be different depending on the rate of deceleration, brake pressure, etc. If you look at the ITBM flow charts, you can see that there are LOTS of inputs that will cause the brake application to vary. Including if the truck sensors start to detect sway.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Here's a member showing and sharing his experience and knowledge as much as possible, and yet he's slammed for it. He's always tried to help other as much as possible. That's always been the TDR way. There's absolutely no need for this drama. That belongs on FB. Please act like an adult and respect others here. If you can't, maybe you should stay on FB?

Hey sounds like several posts I have made in the past about all the sniping.

Thanks for the post!

 

[AH64ID]

You’ll figure something out and write a how to on chasing a brake circuit rundown.

Hopefully.

All in all I rather like the ITBC, but it does seem more sensitive.

AH64ID - I'd be interested to know what amps are being drawn on your magnets for your different trailers. Or, is there a difference in resistance between the various trailers. A newer trailer I have has the "crimp into a wire" connector for the brakes. One isn't making good contact so that one brake isn't working properly. Yes, resistance will show it to be fine but it isn't passing current.

I know that a sitting still check connected to a newer truck with a ITBM will be different than going down the road, and that will be different depending on the rate of deceleration, brake pressure, etc. If you look at the ITBM flow charts, you can see that there are LOTS of inputs that will cause the brake application to vary. Including if the truck sensors start to detect sway.

Before I sold my 05 I noticed that the amp draw indication on my max brake for 1 of my trailers was down, and so was braking power. About the time I sold the 05 I adjusted the brakes on that trailer, despite more than minimum shoe remaining I didn't get much of a change. I then checked all the connections, from the plug to the brakes and all were seeming solid, including the ground. So I replaced the brake assembly, that made a difference but still not like it was new. Not bad, just not the same. I don't have a brake controller that will show amps anymore, so not sure what to do there.

One of the trailers will be for sale shortly, but I plan to spend a little time looking at it before she goes down the road.. again not bad, just not what I know it could be.

The ITBC certainly has a lot of inputs, and that means more potential issues... just like the entire rest of the truck . But it also means it can be a better product.

My 1 trailer that's working great is working better than it ever did with the max brake, and I'm pleased about that. Max Brake wasn't bad, it was great!, just that now it's better.

 

[jhenderson]

Let’s put this into terms we can all understand. You sit down in your favorite chair and turn on your reading lamp. There’s a dull orange glow. You change the bulb with no improvement. You get out your DVOM and the receptacle shows 80 volts. Do you re wire the lamp hoping to improve the bulbs performance on less than required voltage or go to the breaker box and find why you have low voltage?
As for trying to help; there’s multiple threads here on the subject. The latest provides ACTUAL voltage readings from multiple vehicles, under driving conditions rather than how things “ feel”. The facts are what matter. The effort made by that poster to provide solid information matters.

 

[AH64ID]

Let’s put this into terms we can all understand. You sit down in your favorite chair and turn on your reading lamp. There’s a dull orange glow. You change the bulb with no improvement. You get out your DVOM and the receptacle shows 80 volts. Do you re wire the lamp hoping to improve the bulbs performance on less than required voltage or go to the breaker box and find why you have low voltage?
As for trying to help; there’s multiple threads here on the subject. The latest provides ACTUAL voltage readings from multiple vehicles, under driving conditions rather than how things “ feel”. The facts are what matter. The effort made by that poster to provide solid information matters.

If 80 volts is supposed to be coming from the receptacle and the bulb is dimmer than it should be then you look at the lamp.... That's what you're missing. The system will work fine on good trailer wiring with the reduced voltage, in fact it's still rather aggressive at low speeds.

The reduced voltage at low speed is absolutely how they intended it to work, and why the dealership said no issues. The issue is that the controller cannot overcome any wiring issues with that reduced voltage, unlike an aftermarket controller. The aftermarket controller is just masking a wiring issue, while the ITBC can not.

Think about when you're driving and coming to a stop, do you apply more service brakes as you slow or less? You apply less, and that's what the ITBC does.... if you NEED full voltage at low speeds then something is wrong with the trailer brake system (wiring/magnet/shoes/etc). Fix that system.

You're blaming the ITBC because it's different, and easy... that doesn't actually mean it's the issue.

In this thread the OP has had the ITBC checked and it was found ok. He also stated that the trailer worked fine at one point in the drive, but then got worse. That's sounding like a trailer issue. It's a new trailer, which should be trouble free, but we all know how that goes with trailers. The likelihood of a loose connection, bad ground, etc is pretty high on a new trailer.

 

[jhenderson]

Once again avoiding the gist of the conversation to obfuscate your lack of logic. Never mind trying to talk around the example. We all know 120 volts is normal.
If your trying to stop at the foot of a hill you increase braking as you’re coming to a stop to keep from rolling into traffic. Having only 5K behind you I wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t even know if your trailer was braking at all. Put 18K back there and tell us all how great the factory engineers are.Pulling voltage in that instance is dangerous at best. If this is such a wonderful idea why don’t Ford or GM use the same strategy for their brake controllers? Before you answer realize posts in other threads refer to the the same problematic trailer having no brake trouble behind either a Ford or GM truck with factory controllers, which, unlike the Ram controller, provided full 12 volts when called for by the manual brake lever.