Oil pan/pickup tube clearance

[DownByTheRiver]

2001 3500 quad cab/4x4/NV4500

I recently put a nice dent in my oil pan via an underhoist stand placed incorrectly. The pan is dented in the sump area, and is about 3/8 of an inch deep at worst when I check with a straight edge; I'll try and grab some pictures later tonight. My concern is that I have damaged the pickup tube/screen. I cannot find any definitive information on where this pickup is located in the sump, or how much clearance there is from the bottom of the oil pan. I would assume that number is very small. No pictures I've found show any definitive answer, just that the tube runs along the passenger side and the pickup screen falls somewhere in the sump (obviously).

I'd REALLY like to avoid a pan removal because it looks like a real *******. I was thinking of doing an early oil change and seeing if I could feel around in the drain plug hole/use a borescope to investigate. I don't want to just fire it up and rely on the oil pressure gauge, because in my reading, there are some accuracy issues associated with the stocker.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Bob4x4]

There is not much clearance,but I’ve never measured it to be able to give you a number.I had a 6.7 with a dented pan,the rods would hit the pan- noises as hell.With that being said the pick up Assy is very stout

 

[DownByTheRiver]

Gotcha, thanks. Do you think it's possible to feel the pickup screen from the drain hole? I'll try and grab a borescope, or at minimum a look around mirror that'll fit in there.

 

[GAmes]

I have a pickup tube and a pan in my parts shed. I estimate there is about a 1/2 inch of clearance between the tube and the pan. The pickup portion is behind the drain bung and is perpendicular to the pan. I can take a picture if you need a better description.

 

[DownByTheRiver]

I appreciate it, but don't trouble yourself. I just have to reach in there and see what's going on. If it runs parallel with the frame rail on the passenger side until it hits the sump, then dives down and then makes a 90 towards the drivers side after the plug, I should probably be able to feel what's going on. I appreciate the help on this one. I'll try and post back with some measurements in case anyone else runs into stupidity like this.

 

[GAmes]

No trouble. I doubt you could stick a finger into the drain hole and feel the tube, maybe a borescope. I have a theory that once the oil is drained you could give the bottom of the pan a whack with a rubber mallet and hear the tube rattle if it is contact with the bottom of the pan.

 

[DownByTheRiver]

Well thank you for posting that, because that's definitely not what I expected to see in there.

I ordered a cheapo scope off of amazon, so I'll check it tomorrow and see where it goes. The mallet trick is a good idea, wouldn't have thought of that one!

 

[Chief USA]

What are the possibilities of tack welding a nut or bolt to the center of the dent, attaching a slide hammer and gently try pulling the dent out just enough to ensure adequate clearance IF it is needed at all? Depending upon how bad the dent is a strong magnet could be used instead of tack welding. It may be that the better option is to have a look at with the borescope and if the pickup tube is not touching or in any way damaged, leave it along and drive on.

 

[Chief USA]

A picture of the damaged oil pan might be helpful so we can see exactly what we are dealing with.

 

[DownByTheRiver]

That was exactly my plan if needed. The only obstacle I could see is if the pickup tube was damaged in the process. Seeing how it's bolted to the block twice along with the flange makes me feel better about that situation though.

I didn't have a chance to work on the truck last night, but I should be able to get some pictures tonight. If for nothing else, this was an excuse to buy a tool!

 

[HHhuntitall]

Well, let me point out that the pickup sump has a screen on it, and is not flat, either..... It's somewhat rounded, perhaps 18ga steel. It's pretty tough. From what I've seen, the distance from pan to sump pickup varies from truck to truck.... I've seen oil pans with huge holes in them, and the sump bent, but very seldom is the tube ever bent. I had a '98 that the pan was pushed up to the sump screen, and it ran well over 100k with it like that.... buried the sucker crossing a creek with a trailer and bottomed it out.... had to drag it out backwards with a dozer, and it didn't do it much good..... didn't hurt it's function any, though. Sump had to be against the pan.....

 

[DownByTheRiver]

Kicked the can down the road on this while I resealed the top end and did the badly needed (outside leak at cyl 1) head gasket and studs. Now that everything is back together, I pulled the fuel system fuse and cranked in several intervals of about 5-10 seconds. No oil pressure. Pulled the oil filter and the level is at the same spot I pre-filled it to. I had the timing cover off to do my front main and while I was in there, tighten the timing case bolts, as some were a little loose. I pulled the oil pump to see if there were any case bolts under it, but there were none so I reinstalled and retorqued it to spec. Is there anytning I could've done incorrectly here? Oil pump looked very simple.

I think I'm down to oulling the pan, unless I didn't turn the motor for long enough. To me it's worth the piece of mind, anyway. I don't see anything otherwise that would cause no oil pressure besides the pickup tube and bent pan. I have a lift, so I was thinking about doing my rear main seal while I'm at it. From what I gather, the oil pan just slides back out if you have the transmission removed, correct? I'll get with geno's and order what I need tomorrow, just hope i didn't screw anything up too badly.

Side question: why does the lift pump run even with the fuel fuse pulled? It ran for about 10 seconds after i let off the key. Is it ECU controlled?

 

[DownByTheRiver]

One other thing hit me this morning. I replaced the oil cooler gaskets before I did the head gasket because it looked like the leak was coming from there. I haven't started the truck since the cooler gaskets were replaced because I continued on with the 'while I'm in theres', so I'm wondering if it may be misaligned? Still pulling the pan, but I'd imagine this could be a problem as well.

 

[GAmes]

I can't answer your question about the lift pump, but no, the oil pan does not just slide back. It has to go down four or five inches before it will slide rearward if the pickup tube is still bolted on. Other wise you have to drop it a few inches, unbolt the pickup tube, drop it into the pan and then slide the pan out. Either way the engine has to be lifted. It is just a little easier to access the rear bolts with the transmission removed. I'm not sure if you would see any pressure with just the starter motor and there isn't any reason that I can think of that a 3/8 dent would prevent oil from being picked up by the pump. My oil pressure doesn't rise until a second or three of running.

 

[BigPapa]

It could be something didn't get put together correctly with the Pressure Relief Valve on the Oil Cooler:

OR, there's an Expansion Plug behind the Cam Gear that this fellow found to be his problem:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/oil-pressure-help.267960/

 

[DownByTheRiver]

I can't answer your question about the lift pump, but no, the oil pan does not just slide back. It has to go down four or five inches before it will slide rearward if the pickup tube is still bolted on. Other wise you have to drop it a few inches, unbolt the pickup tube, drop it into the pan and then slide the pan out. Either way the engine has to be lifted. It is just a little easier to access the rear bolts with the transmission removed. I'm not sure if you would see any pressure with just the starter motor and there isn't any reason that I can think of that a 3/8 dent would prevent oil from being picked up by the pump. My oil pressure doesn't rise until a second or three of running.

I'm getting mixed answers on the starter prime thing in my searches. Many say you can, some say you can't. I had an LS engine that had to be spun and spun and spun before it would generate any pressure. Just ordered what I need to do the pan/rear main from Geno's, better to play it safe. Also got the FSM as well.

It could be something didn't get put together correctly with the Pressure Relief Valve on the Oil Cooler:

View attachment 118916
OR, there's an Expansion Plug behind the Cam Gear that this fellow found to be his problem:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/oil-pressure-help.267960/

I'll check the oil cooler tonight and verify the plunger moves, but I didn't have it apart from the filter housing. I would assume that being stuck open means that I'm draining everything back into the pan? That could very well be the case. Thanks for that thread, good measurements in there to go off of.

 

[DownByTheRiver]

I'm glad I decided to change the oil pan gasket and check everything out, because I can't even slide a 3/32" filler rod underneath the pickup screen. I think its round, so it may not have affected anything, but I'm going to sleep better having fixed this one.

Second picture: should there be an o ring/gasket behind the cam on an 01? Service manual shows nothing, but I swear I've seen an o ring or something there in a video, etc. The rear main looked pretty good, but there was a significant amount of oil between the adapter and bellhousing, maybe that would explain it. Part number I found is 4945701.

 

[BigPapa]

QuickServe shows an Expansion Plug (11), 3900687, and an O-Ring (13), 3926047.

 

[DownByTheRiver]

QuickServe shows an Expansion Plug (11), 3900687, and an O-Ring (13), 3926047.

View attachment 119145

Thanks! Is #7 in that picture an oil galley plug? That could explain things, too.

I'm having trouble signing up for quickserve, I'll call Cummins when they open. I refuse to deal with the local dealer here.

 

[BigPapa]

#7 is a 17.73mm Expansion Plug, 3900956.