100% torque, first gear

[DeansRedRam]

I've seen it advertised that with the new Chevy L5P and 10 speed setup in T/H you'll get 100% torque in first gear. Now I didn't think other truck manufacturers did the same, but I was just watching this YouTube Video where the guy talking about the truck explained that this 2019 Ram 3500 SRW H.O. w/ Aisin provides full 100% 1000lb/ft of Torque in first gear. The man explaining this is a Ram employee. See video below, Skip to 11 mins 38 secs to hear him say it.



The real question is, does my 2018 H.O. do the same in first gear?

 

[Cummins12V98]

19 and 20’s

 

[DeansRedRam]

19 and 20’s

Darn, I was hoping I had that. I'm sure aftermarket could give me that, but I was hoping for stock application to offer that. Not a big deal

Man, 100% torque and 3.73 gears, and I thought my 18 with 3.42 and torque management pulled like a freight train...

 

[Wiredawg]

I've seen it advertised that with the new Chevy L5P and 10 speed setup in T/H you'll get 100% torque in first gear. Now I didn't think other truck manufacturers did the same, but I was just watching this YouTube Video where the guy talking about the truck explained that this 2019 Ram 3500 SRW H.O. w/ Aisin provides full 100% 1000lb/ft of Torque in first gear. The man explaining this is a Ram employee. See video below, Skip to 11 mins 38 secs to hear him say it.



The real question is, does my 2018 H.O. do the same in first gear?

DRR,

The only way to truly tell is get on a dyno at a dead stop and lay into it. What does the butt in the seat feel like... strong, moderate, weak?

My 2017 5500 feels strong from a stop, both loaded and unloaded. It feels great 34K Lb getting on Interstate, taking the grades... all butt in the seat. Cant say I'm getting all 750 LbFt TQ, but has to be pretty high.

Sorry, not much help, but not too many ways to verify.

Good luck with your quest for the real answer.

Cheers, Ron

 

[DeansRedRam]

DRR,

The only way to truly tell is get on a dyno at a dead stop and lay into it. What does the butt in the seat feel like... strong, moderate, weak?

My 2017 5500 feels strong from a stop, both loaded and unloaded. It feels great 34K Lb getting on Interstate, taking the grades... all butt in the seat. Cant say I'm getting all 750 LbFt TQ, but has to be pretty high.

Sorry, not much help, but not too many ways to verify.

Good luck with your quest for the real answer.

Cheers, Ron

My truck feels strong too. I think I can thank the extra low First gear of the Aisin Transmission.

 

[TFucili]

They make a lot of claims, but, based on my truck, I would say there is not 1,000 ft/lbs instantly on tap. Lots of TQ Management in effect, IMHO. Figures don't lie, but........

 

[AH64ID]

They make a lot of claims, but, based on my truck, I would say there is not 1,000 ft/lbs instantly on tap. Lots of TQ Management in effect, IMHO. Figures don't lie, but........

This is what I expected.

Advertising vs real life.

It’s easy to see that Ram, GM, and Ford are just changing the terminology from what we know as torque management. There absolutely has to be some sort of torque limiting software for the engine/trans as the trans that can handle 1000 lb/ft with the gear reduction of 1st won’t fit in these trucks.. and that doesn’t even get into the driveshaft or axle requirements.

That being said, it’s just not needed at the weights we tow at. The torque multiplication in play with lower gears eliminates the need.

 

[DeansRedRam]

Interesting. I'd love to get my truck on a dyno and measure torque to wheels in first gear WOT and then take a 19 3500 H.O. and get that on the dyno and measure torque at WOT. Or even just a simple 0-60 run side-by-side with lets say 10k on the bumper. Just for curiosity purposes

 

[Wiredawg]

Max TQ @ 1800 RPMs, so I'm thinking that fast shifting Aisin only sees 1000FT Lb of TQ for a second or two at most if it sees it... I'm thinking more likely to see and feel with a 30K Lb trailer. And that much TQ or some number believed to actually there with that low of gearing with the weight of the truck isn't likely to burn the tires off.

Funny thing, TQ... I think we expect to be g-forced to the back of our seats, bu I remember my 2002 Ram 3500 HO with 6spd manual... grandma first couldn't break rubber in my souped up truck, 2nd did ok, but a third gear LAUNCH would scare the B-Jesus out of you... that's big TQ on the ground. Many times nearly lost it burning tires on a 9KLb truck.

If you could figure out how to get the Aisin to launch in 3rd, I suspect we'd have some pure believers. I think you gots to load it to feel it. I dont have the HO in my 2017 5500, but with those 4.88s, it can be fun playing with 12.2KLb truck, I smile everytime I gets in it. I'm smiling right now even thinking about it.

Cheers, Ron

 

[mpaulson]

My bet is that maybe there is a 1000 ft/lbs in first at the wheels. I have no idea what the real numbers would need to be, but with the torque multiplication of first gear and the rear diff, it might only take 300 ft/lbs at the flywheel to get 1000 at the wheels. So it could be a spin on words and terminology as already mentioned just to sound great.
In reality a totally unrestricted 1000 ft/lbs in first gear might actually put down 8000 ft/lbs(just random numbers here)
I read an article on a unimog a long time ago where it talked about the amount of torque multiplication that goes on with all the gears that it has was nuts, like five figures from the little diesel. Of course at very slow speeds, creeping speeds.

 

[AH64ID]

My bet is that maybe there is a 1000 ft/lbs in first at the wheels. I have no idea what the real numbers would need to be, but with the torque multiplication of first gear and the rear diff, it might only take 300 ft/lbs at the flywheel to get 1000 at the wheels. So it could be a spin on words and terminology as already mentioned just to sound great.
In reality a totally unrestricted 1000 ft/lbs in first gear might actually put down 8000 ft/lbs(just random numbers here)
I read an article on a unimog a long time ago where it talked about the amount of torque multiplication that goes on with all the gears that it has was nuts, like five figures from the little diesel. Of course at very slow speeds, creeping speeds.

It is absolutely a spin on words, IMO.

1000lb/ft to the wheels in 1st only takes 71.49 lb/ft at the motor with a 3.75:1 1st and 3.73's in the axle.

Totally unrestricted would be 13,987.5 lb/ft to the tires with 3.73's and 15,375's with 4.10's. This is why we know it's a play on words.

 

[sag2]

I'm a little late to this, but AH64ID has it correct. We have discussed this many times at May Madness when we have talked about torque management. If you think about it, how large would a U-Joint or axle shaft have to be to handle those kinds of numbers? We used to break off input shafts and other hard parts a long time ago, and although the internals of the transmissions are larger than they used to be, they still are not nearly as large as class 8 trucks that have considerably more torque than our 6.7 has. I don't think we can actually prove it without a dyno, but math and common sense would seem to dispel this as a simple play on words.

 

[Wiredawg]

As a common industry practice, engine manufacturers measured rated HP at the CRANK. Unless they are all LIARS then why is it SO hard to believe in modern technology that this is possible. We used to use dynos to prove or disprove it, but all we have is opinions. I personally dont care, but if I cared enough, I'd find a dyno.

Anyhoo, one more conspiracy be played on the common working man by the manipulative and conniving manufacturers.

Have fun with your whatever TQ HO Aisin trucks, never really knowing the truth.

Cheers, Ron

 

[TFucili]

My Mom would say Rod Romain needs his mouth washed out with soap

 

[Wiredawg]

All good explantations, I remember when calculating HP/TQ numbers when dynoing it wasn't uncommon to see 15% drops on automatics due to losses in the drivetrain. What changed? Torque Mgt?

Cummins website used to post TQ and HP curves and you could see the crank ratings. That disappeared and even less spec info.

So using the math, do the Ram Cumminns HOs EVER deliver 1000Lb Ft at any speed in any gear?

Cheers, Ron