CP4.2

[Regcabguy]

Here's an explanation from Four Wheeler. CP4.2
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/engine/what-is-cp4-failure/

 

[cerberusiam]

The phrase "engineered to fail" comes to mind, all in the pursuit of $$ and compliance.Technological progress is a good thing, however, when it directly impacts the reliability and potential long term life it becomes a problem. Not a problem for the manufacturer obviously, just the owners that do not want to trade at the end of the warranty period. Bad news is this just pushes the 6.7 legacy further down the road of being a bad re-engineering job, pretty much on a par with the VP-44 53 block engines. Good news is the shortcomings can be fixed if one cares to pursue that route. Even better news, the competition is still far behind in that area. LOL!

 

[TFucili]

I am again reminded of what my friend, a retired AMC/Jeep/Chrysler engineer told me. When tasked with designing something they want to do a proper design, but the design team wants it lighter, and the bean counters want it cheaper. They call it Material Cost Management, or MCM. He called it Make Customers Mad.

 

[GBBrown]

They can make fuel pumps that last for million mile over the road trucks,marine engines, and heavy equipment but cant make a dependable one for a passenger vehicle..unbelievable!

 

[cerberusiam]

They can make fuel pumps that last for million mile over the road trucks,marine engines, and heavy equipment

That is HD stuff not LD, there is a huge difference in the fuel systems between those vehicles and the typical DD truck. Don't be fooled, you dump too much water or crap into any of them and you WILL be paying a chunk of change to fix the problems. Commercial equipment is usually much better maintained, filter systems are better, and operators for the most part are not totally clueless.

 

[R.Taylor]

There's a 2019 at my dealership with a failed CP4.2 @ 12k miles.... Also said they were running red fuel. I know there is no difference between on road and off road fuel other than red dye. Just curious if they'll deny warranty work over it.

 

[seafish]

There's a 2019 at my dealership with a failed CP4.2 @ 12k miles.... Also said they were running red fuel.

Running dyed red fuel to avoid paying road taxes is if course illegal and will likely void any warranty the owner might have had for the CP4 failure. That said, running "farm fuel" should NOT have caused said HP pump failure as red dyed fuel is just that ... DYED diesel fuel...AFAIK, it is NOT a diffent grade of fuel that is specifically meant for farm use, but rather regular #2 diesel fuel that is dyed red so that taxes do not need to be paid when it is bought.

 

[Ozymandias]

For my knowledge Red fuel is ULSD, but it is lacking the essential additive package that comes with the pump fuel.
But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[EDankievitch]

Red fuel, farm fuel, marine fuel all the same as highway fuel. Just has a dye added so the Tax man has it easy to nail you. I just wonder how do they tax your home electric for your Tesla???
very unfair diesels get screwed but electrics go Scott free.

 

[seafish]

For my knowledge Red fuel is ULSD, but it is lacking the essential additive package that comes with the pump fuel.
But maybe I'm wrong.

Ozy, this was going to be the very first time that I would be able to say that you're WRONG about something (well at least Cummins/diesel related), but your admitting that you might be wrong takes all the fun out of it!!! JK/LOL

 

[Ozymandias]

Ozy, this was going to be the very first time that I would be able to say that you're WRONG about something (well at least Cummins/diesel related), but your admitting that you might be wrong takes all the fun out of it!!! JK/LOL

Yeah i was thinking of it.... because, red fuel is in Europe solely for heating purposes, it's illegal for combustion engines, on or off the road, no matter where it is used.
So in our case it definitely lacks the additives, there is no need for them in a furnace.

 

[Wiredawg]

Not saying this is the case, but just adding info for discussion: there's maintenance and filtering on fuel storage that a lot of folks don't follow. A lot of times fuel sits a long time, water and algae forms.

I'm aware of this because if have a 25KW John Deere diesel generator with a 250gal storage tank for backup power. I run it an hour once a month. Aside from the fuel filtering for the engine, I have a timer that operates a separate recirculating pump through a Racor filter with water fuel separator that runs four hours a day. I use SeaFoam to treat the fuel as well.

My neighbor actually had algae growing in his tractor fuel tank that eventually required removing and cleaning the tank and cleaning the fuel system in the tractor.

For my part, I would not run red fuel in a truck unless storage was well maintained, filtered dispenser, and relatively fresh.

Cheers, Ron

 

[JR]

Yeah i was thinking of it.... because, red fuel is in Europe solely for heating purposes, it's illegal for combustion engines, on or off the road, no matter where it is used.
So in our case it definitely lacks the additives, there is no need for them in a furnace.

What do farmers use for fuel back home Ozy?
The red fuel does not have the highway tax the clear(ish) #2 we buy for our trucks carries at the pump. Agriculture, construction, etc. Can use dyed fuel. We have it delivered to my job site and all of our cranes run it. Anything from 4 and 6 bt 5.9's to current SCR equipped 6.7 with the same CM2250 ECM that's in the 13-18 Ram trucks.

Here heating oil is also (mostly) #2 dyed fuel. The EPA has been slowly phasing true home heating oil out for emissions reasons. I've heard that it's still a thing in the north Eastern part of the country but in my area if you order heating oil they are going to deliver off road diesel fuel. It's been that way for going on 10 years now.

 

[AH64ID]

I use SeaFoam to treat the fuel as well.

I’ve always regarded Sea Foam as a major no-go for diesel because it contains alcohol, which can emulsify water to the point where it can’t be filtered out but will still damage the fuel system.

There are so many alcohol-free options out there that should be used instead.

 

[Signal73]

Can farmers run red as long as they have proof they pay tax on it separately? Thought I heard about that somewhere.

 

[Wiredawg]

I’ve always regarded Sea Foam as a major no-go for diesel because it contains alcohol, which can emulsify water to the point where it can’t be filtered out but will still damage the fuel system.

There are so many alcohol-free options out there that should be used instead.

And there are additives less expensive as well... My BIL is a master diesel mechanic, works with GENSETS up in the megawatts and that's what he told me to use with it. I don't argue with the master, he sold it to me for $2K and does full service, including load banking, and changing fluids/filters ar no cost. Maybe he suggests it because injection pump and injectors are mechanical... sensors and transfer panel only electronics I can tell.

I may take a hit on this as well, but I use OptiLube in my truck, and Lucas in my tractor and gas lawn equipment and gas Kawasaki Mule.

Cheers

 

[cerberusiam]

Water and IPA is not emulsion, it is a colloid which means it can mix to become a fairly stable homogeneous mixture with properties somewhere between the two. That is actually wanted is wanted when treating fuel for water, the water is combined with alcohol and passed thru the system with less impact.

IPA as used in SeaFoam is a bactericide and a cleaning agent like acetone. It is a long chain molecule liquid so it is much more stable than acetone, it readily dissolves fats also so it helps with pour points.

IPA is frequently used in these additives as a suspension agent to keep volatiles form disappearing. When mixed in fuel the volatiles are released to do their job while then combining with other solubles to form a combustible mixture. When mixed with water the IPA combust first adding more bang for the buck and helping break water down to its combustible components.

Really, even a quart of SeaFoam with 10-20% of IPA in a 35 gallon tank is so small a mixture it won't have a measurable effect. More or less like the argument about sulphur in diesel fuel that its removal cannot decrease lubrication when it actually does. All about the compound properties, not the individual component properties.

 

[EDankievitch]

I know from way back when I owned my boat hauling business there were times that I’d get stopped at a weigh station for an inspection after the inspection the Tax people would drain your water separator and if they could dip your tank. That fuel had better be clear. If not you had some splaining to be doing and invoices where that fuel came from. I heard story’s of truckers having the tax people on their backs looking into the business for the last7 years. They want that tax money. that’s why I’m so blown away with how they let these electric cars get away with out paying a dime in highway taxes.

 

[JR]

There aren't any freebies with electric/hybrids in Ohio. Owners have to pay an additional $200 per year on top of their standard registration. Hybrid cars pay an additional $100 on top of registration.

200 bucks is the equivalent of tax on 500 gallons of gasoline.

 

[AH64ID]

Correct, it's not emulsification... I just couldn't think of the correct word, thanks. It does allow more water thru the water separator and that water is still potentially harmful to the fuel system. It might be small amounts, but no water is good.

Plenty of info on why diesel fuel supplements shouldn't have any alcohol in them and most diesel specific additives don't. Generally the only ones with IPA are generic additives, like Sea Foam.

I like Sea Foam and use it on my gas engines but it won't go near my diesel.

Optilube is alcohol free and even has this on their webpage. "XPD does not contain any harmful alcohol."