Electric Over Hydraulic Brake Line Problems

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

Thought I would share an experience that started the day before Thanksgiving. We took 2015 Mobile Suites down to the coast for Thanksgiving with family and a few days just relaxing. The unit has approximately 50K miles on it, it has MoR Ryde independent suspension, and electric over hydraulic brakes.

Ss we parked it in the RV lot, I noticed brake fluid dripping and found the brake hose ODS front had rubbed against part of the IS frame, but wasn't touching when setting level. I figured somewhere during suspension travel, it was biasing into the frame. I also noticed ODS rear had a rub mark as well. I called numerous RV dealers parts departments, hydraulic hose fabricators with no joy. Found the parts at eTrailer.com, called them, and they arrived Friday after Thanksgiving, so replaced them, and put the bias of the hose so as to not contact the frame.

While traveling home today, stopped at rest area and noticed wet spot again. Hose biased into the tire and rubbed through. Damn! So as to not ruin brake pump, I disconnected it, using only the brakes of the 5500 to stop 34KLbs. Worked fine.

Original problem occurred over long time, but where I think I made my mistake is setting the tightness of the brass-non swivel end, which slightly biases either toward the frame, none, or toward the tire with the unit leveled, which takes some weight off the tires. I have two more as I thought I would chang out DS ones.

So, going to level unit with only front landing gear and leave rears up, then replace again, tightening the non swivel end first. Then, align swivel end that attaches to the caliper, and move it up and down an arc to see if it biases in or out, then slight adjustment to solid in tightness to eliminate bias.

Who would have thunk brake lines could be so complex. I'm going to recover a couple days before doing this rework as back, neck, and knees hurt.

Here is pic of original problem.

I'll take pics and post.

Cheers, Ron

 

[GCroyle]

Ron,

Hasn't happened on my rig but I can easily see how hose routing on these can be unforeseen problem area. You hang a hose with suspension down, then is goes to loaded and finally compressed which can be harder to see final routing. I did fix a fellow Airstreamer's rig after the hose replacement rubbed on the frame. Started a decent rub but didn't break the outer hose.

Airstream did something when they outfitted these for a few years. Under compression the hose would kink at the caliper it didn't have the short steel 90 it was hose all the way and kinked and rubber thru or prevent fluid return to reservoir under same conditions, aka skidville. It became an official recall and used a hose that looks just like the one you show.

Ankle holding up?

Gary

 

[Wiredawg]

Hi Gary,

Ankle better after jack hammering it tripping last week. Just the contortions I had to do to work on this made back, neck ache pretty bad and had to be on knees, so they hurt too. Just happy I can still do the work.

I think I'll be able to get it right this time now that I understand the variables. Little small adjustments have big result when suspension moves through range of motion.

You doing OK?

Cheers, Ron

 

[GCroyle]

Ron,

Laying low and mostly out of trouble. This "layup" gave me chance to do some repairs to the Airstream that were annoying or just roll up the sleeves stuff. My steps were getting a bit wonky as the extend and lock notch was worn and needed some wear taken care of. Several days later new "sister" plates installed on the outrigger that locks them extended. The plates took care of the worn lock notch now the anchor arms in place very securely took care of that. 3/16" plate all hand cut drill and a good steel jigsaw blade to cut them out and lots of filing to the line. Then for the what was I thinking I replaced both of my dump valves on my terms rather than the oh crap possible terms. Grey tank seal was degrading. And Airstream hides these under the long sheet metal pan that holds the tanks in place w/o any access hatch to access and service. First cut hatch then you go ok I can see and touch clearly now. A bit of a learning experience but valves are smoother than ever.

2021 camping season is a bit up in the air, backyard camping might be the early plans.

Gary

 

[Cummins12V98]

Ron I highly advise ripping out what DRV installed and re route your lines like MORryde did on mine when doing the 3" frame lift. MORryde Tech just shook his head and said as usual he would be "making it the way it should be".

 

[Cummins12V98]

Here is mine on the assembly line, notice the brake line been g stretched???

 

[Wiredawg]

Ron,

Laying low and mostly out of trouble. This "layup" gave me chance to do some repairs to the Airstream that were annoying or just roll up the sleeves stuff. My steps were getting a bit wonky as the extend and lock notch was worn and needed some wear taken care of. Several days later new "sister" plates installed on the outrigger that locks them extended. The plates took care of the worn lock notch now the anchor arms in place very securely took care of that. 3/16" plate all hand cut drill and a good steel jigsaw blade to cut them out and lots of filing to the line. Then for the what was I thinking I replaced both of my dump valves on my terms rather than the oh crap possible terms. Grey tank seal was degrading. And Airstream hides these under the long sheet metal pan that holds the tanks in place w/o any access hatch to access and service. First cut hatch then you go ok I can see and touch clearly now. A bit of a learning experience but valves are smoother than ever.

2021 camping season is a bit up in the air, backyard camping might be the early plans.

Gary

I hear ya on the 2021 RV season being up in the air... we can still travel, but our itenary is focused on visiting National and State Parks and other tourist attractions. What's sad fo me, 2019 was a bust due to my ankle fusion surgery and recovery and COVID is killing the rest.

We've created Southeast US trip plan in mid 2019 to start April 2020 and end Jun 2020. Still hoping for Spring 2021 and that vaccine will make it a reality.

Cheers and Good Luck with your plans.

Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

Ron I highly advise ripping out what DRV installed and re route your lines like MORryde did on mine when doing the 3" frame lift. MORryde Tech just shook his head and said as usual he would be "making it the way it should be".

View attachment 125454 View attachment 125455

Ron,

That certainly explains a lot. Gotta really study this as pretty technical replacing, forming and bending steel lines. What's sad is the way DRV installs it, it is inherently going to rub on the rear angled steel plate on the back of each IS unit. All mine have some rub, the left front was the worst. I may call MORyde and ask if they have a qualified service center listed in TX. Worst case, like so many other things, I'll buy the right tools and learn how to do it myself. Hoping the EOH pump not damaged from running out of fluid again.

Thanks again. I'm sure I'll have more posts on this subject here, just us type "A's" have a hard time with stuff being broken and having to reengineer something.

Cheers, Ron

 

[GCroyle]

Cummins12V98,

Turn out OK after delivery? That has similarity to how a Dexter Torflex works, mimics a MC rear wheel swingarm. So why not follow the lead of the MC industry and start the hose near the pivot point and follow the trailing arm? Protected better and less movement IMHO. AS routed the line in from BEHIND the torflex, kinky time.

Gary

 

[TFucili]

DRV has built the same basic chassis for so long you'd think they'd have it dialed in by now. That's disappointing. Take it slow, Ron.

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

I guess here's a fact, at least as I see it: I replaced brake pads didn't crack brakelines and suspended them so no weight on brake lines, so I'm figuring this is very slow and occurs on limited basis on high mileage units. Rubbing won't occur if zero bias, but hard to do after tightening line at non swivel end... might require slight bending (rotation) of the T connection at the L bracket connecting steel brake lines and rubber brake line. So, lots to study... meantime I'm going back to eTRailer and order 4 more lines new hardware C clips and snap rings. Looking at brakeline bending tools, flaring tool, and flare nuts (not sure if thats correct name).

Thanks for the pics and inputs... may consult y'all for more at this progessess.

Happy Trails, Ron

 

[Cummins12V98]

Cummins12V98,

Turn out OK after delivery? That has similarity to how a Dexter Torflex works, mimics a MC rear wheel swingarm. So why not follow the lead of the MC industry and start the hose near the pivot point and follow the trailing arm? Protected better and less movement IMHO. AS routed the line in from BEHIND the torflex, kinky time.

Gary

I had Rolling Retreats adjust the lines after they received it. It was better but still not right as it is now after MORryde worked their magic.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Ron I know you are more than talented enough to replace like MORryde did for me. I am more than happy to post pics and description or each location so you have a map top follow.

Let me know.

 

[Jim W]

Ron,
From my experience in designing and doing warranty analysis on failed components at Cat during my time there. May I make a couple of suggestion on the hose routing for your rig. My first suggestion is to put some type of hose guard on the expose hoses that could rub on the frame. I am aware of two types of material that would work. The first is a wire spring guard but that is usually put on the hose first and than the fittings are crimped on. So, if the hose is already purchased and installed that will not work for your needs. The next hose guard material is a fabric type made out of Nylon. This can be slipped over the hose fittings and than crimped on to the fitting sleeve. This will prolong the life of this critical hose. If any wear is apparent on the hose guard, the hose guard should be replaced but the brake hose should be in perfect shape.

The next thing I would do is try to eliminate any sharp metal edges on the frame. This can be done by placing a non-metallic type of martial such as a rubber bulb channel spring clip that can be slipped over the metal edges. This will provide a slipper non-abrasive surface for the hose material to lay against. Also if possible clip the hose with a rubber coated stand-off clip to prevent the hose from touching the frame in it's motion.

Another point is to not over tighten the fittings when tightening them, especially if they are a flare fitting deign. Once the flare is spread larger than the 45deg flare ( brake fitting standard size) on the male fitting, the female will never tighten enough to stop the fitting from leaking since the fitting is now out of shape.

 

[endoscott]

Ron, we did a SE trip a few years back, there is an awesome Army Corps of Engineers campground (Bolding Mill) on Lake Lanier near Atlanta. Huge sites and you can get waterfront. One of the top campgrounds we have visited. Traffic in Atlanta is horrible though.

 

[Wiredawg]

Ron,
From my experience in designing and doing warranty analysis on failed components at Cat during my time there. May I make a couple of suggestion on the hose routing for your rig. My first suggestion is to put some type of hose guard on the expose hoses that could rub on the frame. I am aware of two types of material that would work. The first is a wire spring guard but that is usually put on the hose first and than the fittings are crimped on. So, if the hose is already purchased and installed that will not work for your needs. The next hose guard material is a fabric type made out of Nylon. This can be slipped over the hose fittings and than crimped on to the fitting sleeve. This will prolong the life of this critical hose. If any wear is apparent on the hose guard, the hose guard should be replaced but the brake hose should be in perfect shape.

The next thing I would do is try to eliminate any sharp metal edges on the frame. This can be done by placing a non-metallic type of martial such as a rubber bulb channel spring clip that can be slipped over the metal edges. This will provide a slipper non-abrasive surface for the hose material to lay against. Also if possible clip the hose with a rubber coated stand-off clip to prevent the hose from touching the frame in it's motion.

Another point is to not over tighten the fittings when tightening them, especially if they are a flare fitting deign. Once the flare is spread larger than the 45deg flare ( brake fitting standard size) on the male fitting, the female will never tighten enough to stop the fitting from leaking since the fitting is now out of shape.

Thanks Jim, I was thinking that also and would be easiest to accomplish. I'm including in my searches.

Ron I know you are more than talented enough to replace like MORryde did for me. I am more than happy to post pics and description or each location so you have a map top follow.

Let me know.

Ron,

Just curious, did they parallel the lines from the pump with different legs feeding left and right side or did they keep the series configuration?

Thanks Ron

 

[Cummins12V98]

I will have to look.

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

Here is pic with new line. Long damage to the left on hose is where I biased it out, not taking into account suspension wasn't compressed with full weight of RV. Then when levelers were raised, I theorize the bias over compensated and moved hose into tire. When I stopped and discovered it, I rebiased, which rapidly rubbed damage against sharp edged bracket.

Lots of room to improve this. Still running problem through the all powerful Bat Computer (me).

Cheers, Ron

 

[GCroyle]

Alfred too the Bat Room!

Start the Bat hose routing computer.

 

[TFucili]

Goodness gracious, there is the potential there to devise all manner of over complicated solutions. You need a design committee!