Good news Cp4 to Cp3

[DonFitzwater]

You'll have to convince my Ford tech buddy that wrenches on them every day. He has night mares of cracked flex plates and head replacements.

It’s easy to become jaded when you wrench in them all day. Nobody brings them in because they are running great.

 

[AH64ID]

@DonFitzwater I took some notes on the EGR position vs instant mpg on my '18 today. As mpg's decrease so does the EGR valve percentage. I also noted that at quick power changes, such as stabbing the throttle to pass, the EGR instantly goes to 0% until the combustion stabilizes.

Looking at the tables for your 2019 it works very similar. As load increases the EGR decreases.

 

[JR]

It’s easy to become jaded when you wrench in them all day. Nobody brings them in because they are running great.

Hes a dyed in the wool blue oval guy so I wouldn't say he's jaded. Some platforms just turn out to be turds.

 

[UglyViking]

On the topic of the EPA requiring the EGR, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. Government has a tendency to overreact to things and it takes mountains of data to change anything. They generally run on the principle of add it and forget about it. If nothing else it's simply easy to get stuck in a position. If the EPA had to fight to get EGR as part of modern diesel engines and new tech comes around that no longer requires it the EPA will dig in their heels, not necessarily out of a power grab (although I wouldn't put it past them) but more so because they now view this as them being challenged and having to prove they are right sort of thing.

I see this every day in the business world. Someone challenges and idea/decision since new data is available and the original presenter of said idea/decision immediately and without thinking pushes back. Often times not because the person thought about it, just a natural reaction to them being challenged. It takes a lot of skill in order to bring up new data and get someone to change their mind, and often it's a waiting game as time needs to have them think about it. People don't like to be "wrong" and if they are changing something they originally supported they, or others, will see it as them being wrong.

As for the whole "bypass" or extended warranty debate, well honestly I don't think there is any way around them replacing the CP4. At this point there is just too much opportunity for lawsuit and frankly a lot of potential brand loyalty issue. I think people need to keep in mind that FCA is 3rd in the US truck market, which is arguably the single largest market for any US based auto manufacture. FCA has been spending a ton of time and money in trying to really push for the crown, and it shows. They have received great press on all their most recent trucks and have been able to convert some GM/Ford buyers as well. A lot of the new HD buyers are trying Ram for the first time with the 5th gen, and buyers that have stepped over from a previous gen Ram to the 5th gen but aren't necessarily brand loyal.

Then you have pressure from Cummins, which at this point is all rumor but I expect it's true. If FCAs penny pinching is costing Cummins loyalty as well then it's not great. Then you also have the argument that this is a safety concern, when the pump fails it does so catastrophically, and with HD trucks generally being a primary tow vehicle there is a concern there as well. Towing a large trailer and all of a sudden your truck dies, power steering is gone and you're doing 70mph on the interstate or in the mountains, well huge potential for safety concerns. While the other automakers have managed to skirt that issue for a while the CP4 seems to be failing at a higher rate than the others, at least from the time I spend on the PS groups before deciding on the Ram.

I don't think extended warranty is in the cards as while some may perceive that it's a "freebie" it's important to keep in mind that the CP4 was a large enough issue that FCA had the lobe redesigned then less than a year later swaps for a CP3. Companies like to know costs as much as possible and a higher cost now is generally preferable to an unknown cost in the longer term. While the CP3 swap would be expensive for us as end users it's not near the cost for FCA, plus they get to write off the loss. I just don't see them spending more money on a bandaid when the full fix isn't that much more and it will do a ton for their brand loyalty and reputation.

Time will tell but I'd put money on FCA switching back to the CP3 in the form of a recall or TSB. Maybe I'm just being hopeful as the owner of multiple Jeeps and a Ram currently but it's what makes the most sense to me from the POV of the business.

 

[Bug Out]

"Then you also have the argument that this is a safety concern, when the pump fails it does so catastrophically, and with HD trucks generally being a primary tow vehicle there is a concern there as well. Towing a large trailer and all of a sudden your truck dies, power steering is gone and you're doing 70mph on the interstate or in the mountains, well huge potential for safety concerns."

That just put a video in mind of coming down a 4-5% grade and loosing the motor due to a well known injector pump issue to all big 3 manufacturers......No E brake, brakes, tow brake and a 18K trailer(light weight compared to those towing backhoes etc) pushing you down the hill. smh....

I had a e brake malfunction once going down a long grade into phoenix where wrecks are common from folks towing 5th wheels acting cool with their jacked up tow vehicles, bumper pulls etc not to mention knucklehead car drivers thinking its a curvy race track.....It was a spooky ride riding the trailer brakes and truck brakes trying to keep within safe speeds...The thought of loosing the engine altogether is another story I'd rather not have the experience be able to tell.....

 

[EDankievitch]

Nothing surprises me when it comes to the EPA. Years back Honda made a car/ engine system that could meet and actually beat the EPA emissions requirements with out an EGR or a Catalyst. It was tested and unlike VW passed the real world testing with flying colors. Only the EPA wouldn’t allow it to be sold here until a Catalyst was installed. Honda fought it but in the end caved. Cheaper to buy an install a Cat then fight about it. Our EPA laws were written by lawyers not based on Scientific fact but emotional bs. Has been an argument the European Union has had with the USA EPA for years. In Europe they build the smallest most efficient engine they can to do a job. They measure emissions by tons per thousand in their case Kilometers. Less fuel used less tons of emissions produced. Here we build a truck that uses twice the fuel to do the same job as an older model (example the 07.5-12 RAM’s) but they were better for the environment. WTF?
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that some politician’s brother in law makes EGR valves and his sister makes Catalysts. Only way the EGR will ever leave our cars an trucks is when we get an actual Engineer writing the laws some one that can base the rules on real science.

 

[endoscott]

Ain't that the actual truth!

 

[RammerJam]

Nothing surprises me when it comes to the EPA. Years back Honda made a car/ engine system that could meet and actually beat the EPA emissions requirements with out an EGR or a Catalyst. It was tested and unlike VW passed the real world testing with flying colors. Only the EPA wouldn’t allow it to be sold here until a Catalyst was installed. Honda fought it but in the end caved. Cheaper to buy an install a Cat then fight about it. Our EPA laws were written by lawyers not based on Scientific fact but emotional bs. Has been an argument the European Union has had with the USA EPA for years. In Europe they build the smallest most efficient engine they can to do a job. They measure emissions by tons per thousand in their case Kilometers. Less fuel used less tons of emissions produced. Here we build a truck that uses twice the fuel to do the same job as an older model (example the 07.5-12 RAM’s) but they were better for the environment. WTF?
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that some politician’s brother in law makes EGR valves and his sister makes Catalysts. Only way the EGR will ever leave our cars an trucks is when we get an actual Engineer writing the laws some one that can base the rules on real science.

The EPA fined VW 2.8 BILLION dollars for lying.

Okay, now think about that for a minute........... Ready?? The goobermint, totally and completely run by politicians, fines somebody for lying. Is that a knee-slapper or what??

And you know where about half (or more, maybe 90% sometimes) the fine money goes? To favored charities (501(c)(3). It's a scam that's been going on for decades.

Do you really think the Sierra Club or even some of the eco-terror groups are supported by a bunch of stoned-out, tree-hugging hippies?

The EPA is a rogue organization but that seems to be the norm these days.

Treasure your Cummins diesels, people. If the EPA has their way, they'll soon be gone forever.

 

[UglyViking]

As much as I agree with some (most? all?) of these comments about government overreach, lying, stealing, padding their own pockets, etc. I think it's best to keep the thread on topic of the CP3 change and the potential ramifications for current owners. If someone wants to start a separate thread on the topic of gov overreach please @ me on it as I def have words

 

[RammerJam]

#ad

 

[R.Taylor]

At least my new work van has a CP3 under the hood

 

[UglyViking]

Well at least merc learned from others mistakes and didn't cheap out.

 

[SnoKing]

#ad

And he was able to jump over a shark!

 

[bcbender]

So I came across this little blurb on another forum I frequent. Ram social media team is active on there, addressing concerns of customers. One of the reps posted this in response to one of the long running CP4 gloom and doom threads over there. Should be interesting to see what they are proposing....

“Hello everyone, we would like to relay the latest update to you here regarding your concerns with the CP4 pump. There is currently a service solution in progress for all 2019- 2020MY vehicles equipped with CP4 high pressure pump. Further updates will be announced here as soon as more information becomes available. In the meantime, please know that our team remains available to assist in resolving serviceable vehicle concerns via private messages. Thank you,

Kathryn
RamCares“

Anybody heard anything else on this.....been a few months and I almost forgot about it..
4100mi and still pumping.... at this rate should be around 7k before I do a full LOF service (fuel / oil) and get ready to head west...

 

[DonFitzwater]

I haven't heard a peep about it.

 

[Rob S]

Anybody heard anything else on this.....been a few months and I almost forgot about it..
4100mi and still pumping.... at this rate should be around 7k before I do a full LOF service (fuel / oil) and get ready to head west...

We need Kathryn at Ram Cares to become an active member on our Board to keep us informed and up to date.

 

[piersonmike1]

We need Kathryn at Ram Cares to become an active member on our Board to keep us informed and up to date.

RAM has lost thousands of loyal customers over the CP4 fiasco, now a "risk of fires" on effected grid heaters on 2021's... pathetic.
You'd think Stellantis /RAM CARES would take care of its loyal customers...

 

[DonFitzwater]

RAM has lost thousands of loyal customers over the CP4 fiasco, now a "risk of fires" on effected grid heaters on 2021's... pathetic.
You'd think Stellantis /RAM CARES would take care of its loyal customers...

If you want to taste some real pain, buy a Ford Powerstroke.

 

[SnoKing]

If you want to taste some real pain, buy a Ford Powerstroke.

Blue Kool-aid is an antidote to Ford issues!

 

[DonFitzwater]

Blue Kool-aid is an antidote to Ford issues!

I know....I drank the Koolaid and then bought the ford.............the Kookaid started to leave a bitter taste in my mouth around 10k miles and the 2nd engine.