Engine Swap

[Monroefiredog1]

Hi All,

Looks like that my 02 Dodge Ram 2500 finally bit the dirt, and I am gonna need a engine. I was wanting to know if anyone has tried to replace a CTD in a Ram with a CTD from a school bus? Are they the same engine? The year is a year older but it is a 24 valve. How much trouble would it be to get the engine out of the school bus, and haw hard would it be to change the mounting to make it fit the truck if possible? If anyone can give me any ideas on this it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[BigPapa]

Got a VIN or an ESN from the bus?

 

[Monroefiredog1]

VIN: 1BAADCPA61F093897

 

[BigPapa]

That's from a 2001 Blue Bird FE, front engine. It's basically the same engine that's in your truck. The parts that are different, like the mounts, should swap right over from your truck. It does have a crank and a cam sensor. It's rated at 190HP. This is the data plate info from Cummins. ESN is 45981660.

 

[Cummins12V98]

^^^^^^ Awesome info!!! ^^^^^^^

 

[Ozymandias]

I thought they have a rear gear train?

 

[BigPapa]

I thought they have a rear gear train?

That one's not.

I'm not sure what year they went to the rear gear drive, it may have been when they went to the CR fuel system. We went to CAT's in '03 and didn't go back to Cummins until '06. They were rear gear drive.

 

[Monroefiredog1]

What about the transmission, will it match up, or does it require some type of adapter, do you know?

 

[BigPapa]

Are you talking about putting the transmission out of the bus in the truck?

Your truck transmission bolts to an adapter plate that bolts to the back of the block. Just swap it over to the bus engine. Make sure to replace the seal over the cam bore under the adapter plate while you're there.

 

[Ozymandias]

That one's not.

I'm not sure what year they went to the rear gear drive, it may have been when they went to the CR fuel system. We went to CAT's in '03 and didn't go back to Cummins until '06. They were rear gear drive.

Thank you, now I know more of that history.

 

[Monroefiredog1]

Big Papa

No, not talking about the Trans, It is good. This bus has a new short block in it, about 50,000 miles on it. I do not have a garage to work on it in. I will be doing it all out in the heat and sun. And I figured it will be a pain to get it out of the bus. It is a flat nose school bus. In your opinion would it be worth the time and work involved to do the swap, or would I come out better just selling the truck as it is? The truck is in good condition, and has a new transmission. It has about 280,000 miles or so on it.

 

[BigPapa]

Getting it out of the bus is no problem compared to getting it out of the truck.

Jack the transmission and support it on stands or blocks. It has no mounts, just bolts to the engine. Once you have it firmly supported, unbolt the transmission from the engine. The transmission sits in front of the axle, so it won't be easy to get out until you have the engine out.

Once the transmission is unbolted, unbolt the three motor mounts, support the engine with a jack or hoist, remove the front mount cross-member and the rear mount brackets, pull it forward until free of the transmission, let it down and pull it out.

These pics are of a Thomas with a 6.7 instead of a Blue Bird with a 5.9, but it's basically the same. The radiator and CAC are a unit, unbolt it and it comes out leaving you looking at what you see here.

 

[BigPapa]

What are you going to do with the bus and transmission? How are you going to move it around once you pull the engine?

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Monroe, is the Cummins in your 2002 damaged to the point of not rebuilding?

 

[Monroefiredog1]

Monroe, is the Cummins in your 2002 damaged to the point of not rebuilding?

I have pulled the head , had it resurfaced and checked, it check out good. It was warped, but they resurfaced it and said it was fine. I replaced the gasket with a Cummins to be sure it would be correct. I also had a oil leak on the side plate gasket, so while I had it that far down, I was going to remover the 44 pump and replace the side gasket. When I got it all back together, it would idle ok, but would not run. When you accelerated it would start cutting out and just would not run. So without doing any further checking I thought that I must have smashed the timing key on the pump. So I ordered a new key, and another head gasket. I tore it down again, the head gasket was good, and the key was not smashed, it was all good. Put it all back together, it still would not run, but this time, after it ran for about 20 min or so, I saw antifreeze coming out of the exhaust manifold on Cyl #5. So at this point I am thinking that the block is really warped, or the Cylinder is cracked. I should have checked the block for flatness when I had it apart. Anyway, looks like I gotta do it again. I am just trying to decide it the block is warped, do I want to go thru the trouble of having it shaved or just replacing the engine. Any recommendations on what to check, or look for would be a great help.

 

[Monroefiredog1]

What are you going to do with the bus and transmission?

I have pulled the head , had it resurfaced and checked, it check out good. It was warped, but they resurfaced it and said it was fine. I replaced the gasket with a Cummins to be sure it would be correct. I also had a oil leak on the side plate gasket, so while I had it that far down, I was going to remover the 44 pump and replace the side gasket. When I got it all back together, it would idle ok, but would not run. When you accelerated it would start cutting out and just would not run. So without doing any further checking I thought that I must have smashed the timing key on the pump. So I ordered a new key, and another head gasket. I tore it down again, the head gasket was good, and the key was not smashed, it was all good. Put it all back together, it still would not run, but this time, after it ran for about 20 min or so, I saw antifreeze coming out of the exhaust manifold on Cyl #5. So at this point I am thinking that the block is really warped, or the Cylinder is cracked. I should have checked the block for flatness when I had it apart. Anyway, looks like I gotta do it again. I am just trying to decide it the block is warped, do I want to go thru the trouble of having it shaved or just replacing the engine. Any recommendations on what to check, or look for would be a great help.

How are you going to move it around once you pull the engine?

I didn't get the bus, I was afraid the neighbors would complain if I had a school bus in my yard working on it. The transmission was no good in the bus. I was going to pull the engine and crush the rest. But I didn't get it, so I will have to do something else. Thanks for all of your assistance and the pics.

 

[Monroefiredog1]

Does anyone know what years CTD engines will swap out in my 02 without a lot of changing and adapting? Will all of the 24 valves work in a 2002? If not what will swap out? Any help would be great. Thanks

 

[BigPapa]

Yes, ‘98.5-‘02 will work in your ‘02, but you may need to use the sensors from your ‘02.

‘98.5-‘00 used a crank sensor AND a cam sensor, some ‘00’s-‘02 used only the cam sensor. ‘00 was a split year. Early ‘00’s used both crank and cam and the MAP sensor had a triangular connector. Later ‘00’s had no crank sensor and the MAP sensor connector was flat.

Because of this, your ‘02 won’t work in a ‘98.5. Your ‘02 doesn’t have a tone wheel on the crank for the crank sensor.

 

[Monroefiredog1]

Thanks Big Papa, So your saying that the 1998.5 - 02 will work in mine, but not the other way around? What about an 03?
Thanks for your help.

 

[BigPapa]

‘03 is Common Rail injection. A totally different fueling system.