Spyntec service feedback and lip seal question ?

[verk]

Hi TDR. I just serviced my '04 2500 with Spyntec kit installed '13 now with 85k on the kit. There was more than .005" of end play ( the suggested limit I remember correctly ). Some of the grease had gone black, but the majority was original color and coverage seemed just adequate. When I pulled the hub off I noticed black powder stuck high on the spindle and at first dismissed as dirt, but then I noticed that lip seal ( see attached photo ) looked smaller than I remember. Anybody familiar with these able to comment on whether this seal is worn as I think it is, whether this is normal and if not why ? I cleaned the bearings and both were without visible signs of wear although the inner had a bunch of play while the outer seemed like new ? Any insights appreciated as I'm not experienced with bearing wear.

Sven

 

[jghflys]

No such V lip seal on Dyna Trac kits. I am guessing since there is no lube in that area, the lip just wears out. What does the mating surface look like? If the spindle surface looks good, I would replace the V lip seal and roll on. If the bearing races and rollers look new and were well greased they are probably OK. The bearing internal part called the cage sets how loose the uninstalled bearing feels. The cage also sets the position of the rollers relative to each other when the bearing is installed. Cages should last the life of the rollers and races if properly greased. I have a new set of Timken 387A/382A bearings and will check to see if there is a similar condition as you describe.

 

[Ozymandias]

How can the inner bearing have play and the outer not?
There is only one spanner nut and that sets the endplay of the assembly.
If it loosened up during use then probably one or both of the races weren't seated properly.

One mine I made thousands of miles on the road without any issue - but the first fifty miles of gravel road seated the races and I had a loose wheel bearing all of a sudden. Dynatrac did a bad job pre-assembled mine.

 

[jghflys]

How can the inner bearing have play and the outer not?

I guessed he meant that after he cleaned them the inner bearing had more play than the outer when the were uninstalled. Maybe he will let us know.

 

[verk]

I guessed he meant that after he cleaned them the inner bearing had more play than the outer when the were uninstalled. Maybe he will let us know.

Correct. I removed the bearings from hub and cleaned with the intention of reusing thinking 85k miles wouldn't be too much. The larger inner bearing had considerable play when moving the cup and cone against one another. Comparisons with new bearings make the difference very evident. The smaller inner bearing has an almost imperceptable difference from new.

 

[verk]

SpynTec said to ensure that grease or graphite grease applied to it. The part number ( at least for my Spyntec kit for '04 ) is "110 VA V" v-ring seal.

 

[AH64ID]

85K miles and 9 years seems like a long time between bearing services and inspections. Probably why there was uneven bearing wear, higher free play, and black grease.

24mo/24K is what I recall from back when rigs had that kind of bearings. Trailers are 12mo/12K, but most people double that. I personally think 48mo/50K is probably the most one should go with known bearings (ie you know the service history).

When you put it back together be sure to use the procedures for used wheel bearings vs new ones. You don’t want to get them as tight.

 

[jghflys]

Comparisons with new bearings make the difference very evident.

If the bearings do not look right to you, you should change them while you have the opportunity. I am interested to know what you find on the other side. 85K miles is short for the bearing life, I am on my third repack on my dynatrac free spin with Timken bearings, so they will have over 200k miles on them at the next repack. I check for play in the bearings at each oil change (5000 miles) because I rotate the tires and the tires are off the ground. The amount of play is somewhat subjective, comparing the amount of play to the other side. I also use a IR gun to check hub and tire temps when towing and after maintenance. Again comparing the to other similar locations on the truck and trailer. I checked the new Timken bearings I have and as expected there was zero movement with the bearings assembled in the race. With the large bearing removed from the race there is about 0.065 inch axial movement between the cage and inner cone.

 

[AH64ID]

If the bearings do not look right to you, you should change them while you have the opportunity. I am interested to know what you find on the other side. 85K miles is short for the bearing life, I am on my third repack on my dynatrac free spin with Timken bearings, so they will have over 200k miles on them at the next repack. I check for play in the bearings at each oil change (5000 miles) because I rotate the tires and the tires are off the ground. The amount of play is somewhat subjective, comparing the amount of play to the other side. I checked the new bearings I have and as expected there was zero movement with the bearings assembled in the race.
with the large bearing removed from the race there is about 0.065 inch axial movement between the cage and inner cone.

Why such frequent oil changes?

 

[jghflys]

Why such frequent oil changes?

I do oil analysis at every oil change and like the results I am getting. I do not drive as much as I used to so 5000 miles works for me, about every 6 months. Blackstone (oil analysis company) suggested I could go to 7500 miles. 5000 miles is not a hard number, I work it in with other activities based on use and time since last change. Oil is cheap and cleaner engines run longer.

 

[verk]

85K miles and 9 years seems like a long time between bearing services and inspections. Probably why there was uneven bearing wear, higher free play, and black grease.

24mo/24K is what I recall from back when rigs had that kind of bearings. Trailers are 12mo/12K, but most people double that. I personally think 48mo/50K is probably the most one should go with known bearings (ie you know the service history).

When you put it back together be sure to use the procedures for used wheel bearings vs new ones. You don’t want to get them as tight.

Overdue for sure and I think that 50K seems reasonable. Thanks for reply.

 

[verk]

Thanks for all the replies. A friend has corrected me regarding my inspection. The play I was referring to was in the cage of the bearing as I left the cups ( which I know only as races ) in hub. I could move the cage of the roller bearing considerably more than identical new bearing. I don't know how to intepret and he suggested it didn't mean the rollers were actually worn, but since I had new bearings on hand I replaced. I removed the inner seal by using a brass drift against the bearing in question so perhaps the cage play was my own doing. I am curious what others think about how long these bearings should last if regreased in timely manner. If not adequately greased wouldn't there be visible signs ? Thanks for insights.

Sven

 

[EDankievitch]

I had 160 k miles on my original bearings. I had re greased them around 75 k miles and re set the bearing preload. At 160k the races looked like the rollers had worn a track in the cups. All my years servicing bearings I’ve never seen wear like that. But it was nothing a new set from SKF couldn’t solve. That lip seal is just a dust seal. The important seal is next to the inner bearing.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Anybody familiar with these able to comment on whether this seal is worn as I think it is, whether this is normal and if not why ?

I installed a Spyntec kit recently on my 03. The seal you're referring to is marked G in the picture : its the V lip seal that helps keep dirt, dust and grime out of the seam between the spindle and the hub. It's shields the ABS tone ring. I would replace both and take a tooth brush with brake clean too the tone ring before reinstallation. Lube the seal and face it rides on as well as light coat on the tone ring to keep corrosion at bay. Bobs everyone's uncle.

 

[verk]

I installed a Spyntec kit recently on my 03. The seal you're referring to is marked G in the picture : its the V lip seal that helps keep dirt, dust and grime out of the seam between the spindle and the hub. It's shields the ABS tone ring. I would replace both and take a tooth brush with brake clean too the tone ring before reinstallation. Lube the seal and face it rides on as well as light coat on the tone ring to keep corrosion at bay. Bobs everyone's uncle.

View attachment 134048
View attachment 134049

Thanks for the parts diagram and info. I did find that diagram while looking for the part, but I think it's helpful you posted to forums. In the end I purchased from Solid Axle whose price with shipping was reasonable as I couldn't find the part number in diagram anywhere in stock . Could have spent x10 here for the SKF product

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Thanks for the parts diagram and info. I did find that diagram while looking for the part, but I think it's helpful you posted to forums. In the end I purchased from Solid Axle whose price with shipping was reasonable as I couldn't find the part number in diagram anywhere in stock . Could have spent x10 here for the SKF product

I wish I could use inflation as an excuse for a raise, seems every product and service is hiding behind that curtain. Why on earth a single seal costs 130.00s I have no idea, its not like its some specialized one off for a hub or cylinder on some obscure mining/heavy equipment. Glad to help either way.

 

[verk]

Upon putting all this stuff back together I noticed the Mile Marker 459S/S locking hubs have what appears to be impact or wear damage ( see inline photo ) on the locking hub body where the teeth of the locking hub clutch ( name ?) were making contact with the body. Anybody know why ? The system has worked without issue for 85k miles over 9 years, but I'm thinking they should be replaced ? Otherwise one locking hub looked very good and the other showed signs of some water getting ( i.e. locking hub, lip seal, axle shaft ) with rust ( see inline photo ). Any insights appreciated.

 

[EDankievitch]

I had much the same on my hubs after 160k miles. I found the O rings on the hub caps were allowing grease to sling out and water to get in. The locking clutch doesn’t look too bad. I’d just clean and lube and put back in service.

 

[verk]

I had much the same on my hubs after 160k miles. I found the O rings on the hub caps were allowing grease to sling out and water to get in. The locking clutch doesn’t look too bad. I’d just clean and lube and put back in service.

Thanks for reply. I think the locking hubs are in good enough condition, but I'm concerned about the areas that I've circled in red below. Is wear like this normal ?

 

[jghflys]

Is wear like this normal ?

Not normal, but looks like corrosion at the ends of the grooves on the "base." Pull the snap ring and cam and see how the grooves that the cam slides in look. If the grooves are smooth, clean and lube the parts and reassemble. Remember that the flat spots on the cam align with a bolt hole when you reassemble or the lock will not work.