Another DEF failure (Maybe)

[Mike Wenrich]

My nephew has a 2016 2500 with 50k miles. He was heading out on a camping trip and got maybe 170 miles from home before getting the contact your dealer message and the derate in 150 miles. He made it back partway to get within tow truck range without breaking the bank and had it towed to a dealer in Glendale, CA. He got a call today that the control module, def tank, injection tube and pump all need to be replaced. The control module and tank will be covered under warranty but not the tube and pump. The estimate he was given is $4,100. Which seems pretty steep given part of it is covered by warranty.

Nephew admits he has not driven the truck much in the last 1 1/2 years. And we know that can be the kiss of death. And he thought the gauge was reading a little low (between 1/4 and 1/2 but planned to fill up with def at the next diesel stop.

Does this sound right to the forum? All I have read here indicates the tanks and sensors can be affected by def crystals but could that cause a control module to malfunction as well? Seems they might be throwing parts at it. Nephew does not have a code reader and the dealership did not tell him what codes were thrown. My 2014 threw codes and the contact the dealer message but once I filled the def tank they went away.

 

[Ozymandias]

To me it sounds like - walk away and try another place.
Without even telling him what's actually wrong give that estimate is like - let's rip off that guy. Sorry.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

True he could do that since he is in the Los Angeles area but try another dealer? He is concerned if he goes to a non dealer mechanic and there actually is something wrong with the warranty parts he might have to pay for the whole shebang. I'm not sure if there actually is a control module for the def. There certainly are sensors and we know some owners have serviced their own trucks but this fellow is not skilled enough to do that and I'm 300 miles away. Not that I would be that skilled but I would at least try adding some def to the tank and see if it was just low on the stuff.

 

[Hoefler]

Fill it with fresh DEF and drive it. I run my Def low every time. I get this message every time. It goes away after filling it up and 5 engine cycles.

 

[Timd32]

That just sucks to hear.

Did they give a written estimate with part numbers? Post them up and let's see what the $4,100 covers. Some folks can see the number of hours they are quoting and the part cost.

Kinda need to do a triple check on a repair like that.

Also pull your 2016 CA State Emissions warranty and check it, read it for exactly what's covered. Or is this a MaxCare claim? Get in the weeds with that paperwork for sure.

Good luck with the repair.

 

[Topzide]

I think with your help and a YouTube video, he should be able to pull the DEF injector to see if it's plugged with crystals. Sitting that long in CA temps may have cause the Def to crystalize in tank and on nozzle. That $ doesn't seems to be on par with the norm since warranty is covering part. Agree with others who say to have quote posted with numbers to confirm. Tell him to hang in there and for him to get a TDR membership! It'll help him without having to be relayed. You're a big help and sure he got truck since you've probably told him about yours. Anyone out there close enough to lend this gentleman a hand?

 

[mwilson]

They are simply throwing parts as you said…

 

[Ozymandias]

One needs to know that DEF degrades very fast with high temperature. Sitting for two years in CA it sure is beyond its shelf life.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Around $600 in parts and maybe one hour labor to replace to two non covered parts is what a FAIR shop would charge. Call another Dealer and see if they want your business.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

Spoke to nephew about the suggestions and he added that he put 2 1/2 gallons of def in shortly after this occurred and then drove back to the point where it was towed the rest of the way. Kept getting the message of course. He will contact the dealership tomorrow morning and get a printed estimate and ask what code(s) were present.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

I would hope there is a decent, read honest, diesel mechanic in the L.A. area that he could go to for the repair, if it even needs repair. Maybe another few cycles of the ignition and the message would go away.

 

[AH64ID]

I would have him drain and refill the tank. He still will likely have to take it to a dealer to clear the code, but it’s the cheapest way to start.

Fill it with fresh DEF and drive it. I run my Def low every time. I get this message every time. It goes away after filling it up and 5 engine cycles.

You get the derate message every time? That’s not normal at all.

 

[Timd32]

I think it's a continous monitor deal, so it's not a run cycle deal.

Used DEF is probably pretty nasty to deal with so there is that fun as well. I'm sure some places charge just for the inconvenience of dealing with the stuff.

Alot of folks DIY this one.


For the pump out the link says,

1. Using a commercially available hand vacuum pump, drain the DEF tank into a proper storage tank.

 

[sag2]

There are several write-ups in TDR issues 102, 109, 114, 115 in "The Rest of the Story" that cover some of the common problems with DEF and how to deal with them.

 

[Ozymandias]

DEF is no more then a fertilizer, charging money to discard it is insane.
Worst case it can go down the drain with no harm to the Environment or the WWTP.

 

[Hoefler]

I would have him drain and refill the tank. He still will likely have to take it to a dealer to clear the code, but it’s the cheapest way to start.



You get the derate message every time? That’s not normal at all.

Yes, 200 miles to 5mph, 150 miles to 15mph, 100 mile to 15mph, 98 miles to 15mph, 96 miles to 15mph, etc.. I do this to get all the older DEF used up and I can fill with 2 jugs of fresh. There is no DEF pumps around hear for 50-60 miles

 

[AH64ID]

Yes, 200 miles to 5mph, 150 miles to 15mph, 100 mile to 15mph, 98 miles to 15mph, 96 miles to 15mph, etc.. I do this to get all the older DEF used up and I can fill with 2 jugs of fresh. There is no DEF pumps around hear for 50-60 miles

That’s a low DEF indication, not the same as an issue that takes 5 restarts to resolve. Low DEF inductions resolve as soon as you add DEF.

 

[Hoefler]

That’s a low DEF indication, not the same as an issue that takes 5 restarts to resolve. Low DEF inductions resolve as soon as you add DEF.

My 14 did this every time I ran it low. The first time it did it, I took it to the dealer. Which was 3 days later, the light had gone out. the dealer scanned it and could not find any evidence of a code.

 

[Signal73]

I saw this elsewhere, may allow him to get to a more trustworthy mechanic:


“DEF 5 mph workaround: With the ignition off, turn on and hold on the right turn signal, then place your ignition switch in the accessory position while still holding your right turn signal on. On my vehicle the dash lit up as normal, then it went blank and dark, then it came back as normal. Apparently this resets the speed limitation and lets you drive again as normal. Your message will still display and the derate will probably happen again, but this procedure let me drive the reset of my trip (about 400 miles) as normal with the warning message display starting all over again. But get your system checked before it causes you damage.“

 

[Mike Wenrich]

Interesting work around and it makes sense there would be one since this could occur when drivers are a looooog way from service. Not wishing anyone bad luck but I have been hoping someone would sue the government and maybe RAM as a second litigant if someone had something really bad happen because of this panther piss stuff. Derating could affect your ability to drive your vehicle to safety. It certainly affects your plans and pocket book. If this is a workaround for all RAM def trucks it should be in the manual. Just my opinion. I know, I know, I should be aware that the government is there to help us.