stainless clad lug nuts

[19Kgvw]

I took my recently purchased 2018 3500 with Laramie pkg in for a tire rotate and balance and the front desk guy proceeded to tell me about a degrading condition of the stainless clad lug nuts on the RAM. The rims are the painted aluminum with stainless inserts that are stock on the 20inch upgrade Laramie.
He said that after multiple remove and reinstall of the rims, the cladding has deteriorated and he had seen some lug nuts that couldn't be removed anymore. I've been going to the same tire store for many years and he has worked there for a while. He and the other service managers have never given me bum info so I had the stock lug nuts swapped out for CAD plated nuts.

Has anybody else heard about this or did I just end up with new lug nuts for no reason? Inquiring minds are interested!
Rich

 

[Turbo Terry]

Lug nuts do wear out. They do need replaced sometimes. I don’t know about yours but in times past I have bought new ones and threw the old ones away

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I have plenty of spares since my Jeep takes the same lug nuts, and I put solid nuts on the Jeep. You might get a set of solid lug nuts in M14 x 1.5 thread off amazon, etc. for your Ram. Be sure they are high grade steel--I got grade 10.9. Also check that they are deep enough so they don't bottom out on the stud's threads.

 

[Ozymandias]

Two things, as soon as an impact is used the cladded nuts go bad almost instantly, it's like an anvil and bit sheet metal and a hammer.
Second, one can take/peel of the cladding and use a socket one size smalller (metric) and use them just fine. That works even with the wheel at the vehicle.

Jeep had these Lug nuts for decades...

 

[CRHardie]

Our Caravan had the same thing on it. Went to remove the snows last spring and had to drill out the stud and replace it. Could not get the lug nut off no matter what I tried. Yes I torque them with a torque wrench to spec. If they came on a truck I purchased I would make the dealer change them out before delivery

 

[crazy jerry]

Jeep had these Lug nuts for decades...

nearly every vehicle on the road uses them

prolonged hammering them with impacts isnt the best idea. i give mine a quick squirt from a gun to break free but its only a second or so. . then again i use antiseize on the threads so theres alot less friction to break free lol

 

[BigPapa]

nearly every vehicle on the road uses them

Most I see are on GM's and Fords.

 

[AH64ID]

then again i use antiseize on the threads so theres alot less friction to break free lol

Antiseize on wheels studs has always be a no-no. It ends up applying more torque to the studs and can stretch/weaken them.

If you apply the specified torque it’s the same amount of torque to break them free, the difference is that you’ve actually applied more torque to the threads with the reduced friction of using antiseize.

 

[crazy jerry]

Antiseize on wheels studs has always be a no-no. It ends up applying more torque to the studs and can stretch/weaken them.

If you apply the specified torque it’s the same amount of torque to break them free, the difference is that you’ve actually applied more torque to the threads with the reduced friction of using antiseize.

100lbft is 100lbft no matter if the threads are dry or oiled. thats the part most everyone doesnt understand and cant get past.
when you oil the threads (reduce the friction) that 100lbft now put more tension on the bolt and a higher clamp load between the wheel and hub.
so long as you dont go beyond the elastic limit of the bolt you can put peanut butter ,milk ,lemon juice or what ever you want on the threads.
since you may not believe a word i say ,theres youtube vids that measure the tensile load with dry and oiled threads so you can see for yourself what happens.
staying 10lbft under the torq spec is fine with oiled threads as your likely putting the same clamp load as dry threads.

 

[Turbo Terry]

Maybe it’s a old wives tale but I was told/taught no anti seize also. But a shot of good oil was ok. Who knows that one right?

 

[Turbo Terry]

Impact tools and tire shops are very hard on lug nuts Replace as needed don’t look back

 

[Topzide]

In the O/M on my 3500 it says to place 2 drops oil on the lug nuts. I've always applied anti-seize to lug studs. Torque is torque regardless of whats on the threads. There would be more damage when trying to remove a seized lug nut. In all the years on vehicles and trailers have I had a lug nut come loose after applying anti-seize on the studs and always need considerable amount of effort to remove! Will check the remove torque on next time wheels need to be removed. I anti-seize the hub and studs on front and studs, hub and between wheels on the rear. Don't want to be on the side of the road having to fight changing a tire! Each their own. I'd like to see the auto industry start using lock wire retention like used in aerospace. It sure could reduce a lot of issues of things coming loose!

 

[AH64ID]

@crazy jerry yes 100lb/ft is 100lb/ft but that doesn’t mean that the force on the threads is the same, and you even admit that by saying you can undertorque lug nuts for the same clamping force. Torque specs are based on dry or lubed and you should stick to the designed torque method on things like lug nuts that have specific torques and are pretty important. Lug nuts are a dry torque.

Look at the recall on the 2013+ lug nuts. There was an error in the manual of 11lb/ft and studs were stretching. If you think you can undertorque by 10 lb/ft to get the same clamping force then using the published spec on a lubed thread is going to overtorque the threads, period.

@Timd32 Your owners manual says to place the oil on the rotating flange and specifically not on the stud threads. Huge difference.

 

[BigPapa]

I'd like to see the auto industry start using lock wire retention like used in aerospace. It sure could reduce a lot of issues of things coming loose!

Safety wire on lug nuts. The only problem with lug nuts is not tightening them, cross threading them, or over tightening them. And you want the people that make those mistakes responsible to put safety wire on them?

 

[brucejohnson]

NAPAonline gives the proper lugnut torque application sequence.
The only lubrication to a wheel installation is to the hub union of a hub centric fitting, and to the lug nut flanges, if required, as John stated in post #13. By lubricating the threads, you are changing the friction coefficient of the threaded union, "fooling" the torque wrench with the lesser friction, causing a greater stretch on the stud. Using lubricated threads, you would need to use a device to measure the bolt/stud designed stretch vs. (frictional) torque.
The important part is clean, dry threads on the studs and lug nuts, proper tightening procedures/sequencing and an accurate torque wrench for best results.

HOW TO TIGHTEN LUG NUTS THE RIGHT WAY
Tightening lug nuts the wrong way can cause problems, some of which may not be immediately noticeable:

• Undertorque could result in losing a wheel.
• Overtorque can stretch the wheel stud, possibly breaking it, or distort the brake rotor or wheel hub, causing vibration or pulsation.
• Uneven torque (each lug nut torqued differently) can cause vibration or pulsation.

After setting the torque wrench to the specification in the owner’s manual or repair manual, there are three (sic - these?) steps to tighten lug nuts properly:

1. Replace damaged studs or nuts.
2. Use a wire brush to clean the wheel stud and lug nut threads, and then dry them. Corrosion, thread damage and oil or grease can skew torque application and affect clamping force.
3. Clean the wheel, hub faces and the center hole with a wire brush as well, then dry them.
4. Apply a dab of anti-seize lubricant in the center hole if necessary, but do not apply to the wheel studs or lug nuts.
5. Run the lug nuts in with your favorite tool until snug, but no more.
6. Tighten the lug nuts in a star pattern twice, smoothly applying force until the wrench clicks, but no further.

Knowing how to tighten lug nuts properly is critical. Keeping your wheels on helps you and others on the road to stay safe, and setting proper torque prevents damage to the wheel, hubcaps and disc brakes.​

 

[brucejohnson]

Safety wire on lug nuts. The only problem with lug nuts is not tightening them, cross threading them, or over tightening them. And you want the people that make those mistakes responsible to put safety wire on them?

It's a good thought if done properly...to retain a loose nut. It's also adding one more thing that can go wrong. With Murphy and Magilla Gorilla around this would be a situation where the KISS principle would be most beneficial.

 

[crazy jerry]

@crazy jerry yes 100lb/ft is 100lb/ft but that doesn’t mean that the force on the threads is the same, and you even admit that by saying you can undertorque lug nuts for the same clamping force. Torque specs are based on dry or lubed and you should stick to the designed torque method on things like lug nuts that have specific torques and are pretty important. Lug nuts are a dry torque.

Look at the recall on the 2013+ lug nuts. There was an error in the manual of 11lb/ft and studs were stretching. If you think you can undertorque by 10 lb/ft to get the same clamping force then using the published spec on a lubed thread is going to overtorque the threads, period.

@Timd32 Your owners manual says to place the oil on the rotating flange and specifically not on the stud threads. Huge difference.

i dont know why your so hung up on the word torq. with any bolted connection your goal is to put x amount of tension load on the bolt and clamp force between the parts.
whether you get to that x tension and clamp with high friction dry threads or low friction oiled threads makes no difference

 

[PRS]

i dont know why your so hung up on the word torq. with any bolted connection your goal is to put x amount of tension load on the bolt and clamp force between the parts.
whether you get to that x tension and clamp with high friction dry threads or low friction oiled threads makes no difference

But then how do you know when you’ve reached that tension value with lubed threads, when the specified torque is expressed with dry threads?
You’ve already stated that you apply more tension with lubed threads by advocating dropping the spec by 10 ft/lbs in your earlier post. How does the average guy establish the increased tension value of lubed threads without taking a WAG?

 

[crazy jerry]

In the O/M on my 3500 it says to place 2 drops oil on the lug nuts. I've always applied anti-seize to lug studs. Torque is torque regardless of whats on the threads. There would be more damage when trying to remove a seized lug nut. In all the years on vehicles and trailers have I had a lug nut come loose after applying anti-seize on the studs and always need considerable amount of effort to remove! Will check the remove torque on next time wheels need to be removed. I anti-seize the hub and studs on front and studs, hub and between wheels on the rear. Don't want to be on the side of the road having to fight changing a tire! Each their own. I'd like to see the auto industry start using lock wire retention like used in aerospace. It sure could reduce a lot of issues of things coming loose!

with dry threads galling happens. sometimes its a very small amount ,sometimes its alot. this is why you see people complain they sheared the stud off or have to hammer it off with impacts and destroy the cladding.
toyota ,dodge ,ford and every other company has used clad lugs for decades. having owned some of these vehicles for many years ive never had to replace one single stud or lug. probly because i always put something on the threads.
but some guys say its no no LOL.
its all good. im not hear to change anyones mind. we can all keep doing what we do

 

[brucejohnson]

i dont know why your so hung up on the word torq. with any bolted connection your goal is to put x amount of tension load on the bolt and clamp force between the parts.
whether you get to that x tension and clamp with high friction dry threads or low friction oiled threads makes no difference

To get "x" tension (bolt stretch) is based on engineering studies. The particular studies were done with dry threads and all the applicable physics involved. (including friction coefficient). Too much stretch, then "snap", no union, no more. Too little, union loosens. A bolt/stud can only stretch so many times. Keeping stretch in a designed range gives maximum life. Exceed the designed stretch, even a little, the fitting will fail sooner. The more, the quicker. We haven't even touched on the thermal expansion coefficient element. The engineers have spent a lot of time and research on the various materials and their characteristics to give us safe, useable products. Thank them for designing a safety margin (I believe 20 to 25% for most lug nuts) to account for most of the anticipated errors. Then it is up to the manufacturers of the fastener and the user to maintain the set standards.