Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Does this look normal?

[brucejohnson]

Ouch!
After what I am about to say I may be the kid that nobody likes.
The pictures don't look good at all. The pinion "appears" to have several areas of galling as well as the "chips" in the leading edge where there is a lot of stress as well as a potential to damage the ring gear and/or break apart causing more damage.
The roller bearing looks "well used" and discolored. It's out and easier to replace than to have it fail shortly after reassembly.
The ring gear has some chip evidence which "may" develop a catastrophic "disassembly" under load.
My training is in the aerospace and electronic arenas where you can't just pullover to the nearest cloud at 35,000 feet when something goes BAD wrong, so I am more critical.
My opinion is "time to look for some new or serviceable "previously loved parts".
Sorry to be so critical.
Others on the forum may have additional info through their extensive experiences.
Best of luck!

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

Thanks for the detailed reply. Is that the consensus so far guys?

 

[Ozymandias]

thank you so much for the valuable info. I did not know that but judging by how this project is going, I sort of assumed it. Thanks again

Have you actually ever worked on an Axle?
Setting an axle, that is highest rank mechanic skills.

Start asking prior to ripping stuff apart, now you have no idea where the bearing cap go but this is absolutely crucial, like in an crank these are spindle as a unit.

 

[BigPapa]

I don’t know, fellows. I don’t think he’s got a lot to lose if he cleans it all up GOOD and puts it back together. If he has a problem, I believe it will get noisy before catastrophically failing. Now, if he’s towing heavy and a long way from home, that’s a different scenario. If it’s a daily driver that pulls a boat 50 miles to the lake half a dozen times a year, I’d have to try it if it were mine. If money’s not an issue, then by all means go ahead and rebuild it now, but, I’ve been in similar situations where money was really tight and felt it worth the chance.

Just my $0.02. Feel free to berate me if you wish. I can handle it.

Mo, in the last pics of the axles, if the light colored stuff is what you’re calling a “seal”, it’s silicone used to seal the tubes. It’s ok.

 

[brucejohnson]

Have you actually ever worked on an Axle?
Setting an axle, that is highest rank mechanic skills.

Start asking prior to ripping stuff apart, now you have no idea where the bearing cap go but this is absolutely crucial, like in an crank these are spindle as a unit.

The right (?) bearing cap "may" be able to be determined by the position of the number and cast anomalies on the cap in one of the pictures. That leaves a 50/50 chance on the left bearing IF the position was not annotated. Chalk it up as a learning experience for sure. Back a "few" years ago, w-a-y before cell phone cameras, a cheapy Polaroid Swinger would make a reasonably priced (break into the beer money), "instant" (OK 20 or so seconds) photo documentary of what you were about to tear apart.

 

[brucejohnson]

I don’t know, fellows. I don’t think he’s got a lot to lose if he cleans it all up GOOD and puts it back together. If he has a problem, I believe it will get noisy before catastrophically failing. Now, if he’s towing heavy and a long way from home, that’s a different scenario. If it’s a daily driver that pulls a boat 50 miles to the lake half a dozen times a year, I’d have to try it if it were mine. If money’s not an issue, then by all means go ahead and rebuild it now, but, I’ve been in similar situations where money was really tight and felt it worth the chance.

Just my $0.02. Feel free to berate me if you wish. I can handle it.

Mo, in the last pics of the axles, if the light colored stuff is what you’re calling a “seal”, it’s silicone used to seal the tubes. It’s ok.

No berating at all Scott! Your $0.02 and experience are very valuable. Like you stated, depends on the situation. I have assisted several friends in the distant past put together numerous Frankenstein setups 'cause that's all we had with what little money we didn't have...very creative minds at work. Just never knew which block (one, or more if lucky), or hole-shot would deposit the innards and/or housing bits-n-pieces in the middle of the road swimming in gooey lube. Rope/chain...pull the carcass home, or to the shop and find a friend with "spare parts" laying around.

 

[BigPapa]

If it can be determined from pics where the caps go, all is well. If not, I wouldn’t sweat it too much. Bolt them up with the carrier out and feel inside where they meet. If you feel it doesn't match up, flip it and try again. We ran aftermarket billet caps on the pulling truck. They weren’t even made in the same decade as the original caps and that axle ran a long time behind a LOT of torque and HP.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

I don’t know, fellows. I don’t think he’s got a lot to lose if he cleans it all up GOOD and puts it back together. If he has a problem, I believe it will get noisy before catastrophically failing. Now, if he’s towing heavy and a long way from home, that’s a different scenario. If it’s a daily driver that pulls a boat 50 miles to the lake half a dozen times a year, I’d have to try it if it were mine. If money’s not an issue, then by all means go ahead and rebuild it now, but, I’ve been in similar situations where money was really tight and felt it worth the chance.

Just my $0.02. Feel free to berate me if you wish. I can handle it.

Mo, in the last pics of the axles, if the light colored stuff is what you’re calling a “seal”, it’s silicone used to seal the tubes. It’s ok.

I love you lol. No, it’s a near stock truck that doesn’t pull much. Always wanted a Twister truck (and want more)

I think I can probably parse which bearing cap went where, I presume the caps for the bearings in the housing? I think we can figure that out, I’m pretty badly ocd.
Please don’t let my reply sway you or anyone else from replying, I am literally all eyes and I am beyond thankful to you any everyone else for the amazing feedback.

 

[Ozymandias]

Watch a ton of videos on YouTube how to set up a rear end, so learn how it needs to be done. This isn't easy but it can be done, but we have no idea how much you already know or not know. So we don't know what we have to say and what not.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

Watch a ton of videos on YouTube how to set up a rear end, so learn how it needs to be done. This isn't easy but it can be done, but we have no idea how much you already know or not know. So we don't know what we have to say and what not.

Not an authority on axles. I understand pinion preload is how much friction in inch lbs exists after the pinion nut, washer, bearing, and yoke are installed with a dial indicator.

I think a pattern can be set by painting a small area of the ring and running it against the pinion to see the corresponding marks and somewhat of how to read them. I do not yet know how to adjust that but I feel it can’t be that hard and many movements for adjustment are in thousands of an inch.

I understand bearing principles and the basic assembly. I see 2 side carrier bearings, 2 conical bearings on the pinion, washer for the pinion and nut. I understand shims are placed before the carrier and bearings are in there in most cases. I am all ears and eyes and have been looking online for guidance too on YouTube. What am I missing? Runout? What else? There’s gotta be something

 

[Matt42]

Something roughly similar happened to my supervisor with his 1971 Chevy C-10. In his case, a lube leak led to the pinion gear partly exiting the pumpkin rearward. After a short amount of discussion we all decided that a good, used brake plate to brake plate axle assembly was the fastest answer.

His was of course only a 2 wheel drive, so the gear ratio was secondary to getting the truck moving again. With a 4x4, you also need to match the front axle ratio. That is usually not difficult with the number of 2nd generation Rams out there being picked apart.

 

[BigPapa]

As mentioned, the D70 and D80 are probably the most difficult axles to set up. It’s all done with shims under pressed on bearings. You use a chart to determine the starting point for pinion depth, then for pinion bearing preload. If something’s not right, you start over. Once the pinion is correct, you have to set the shims under the carrier bearings. You must have it shimmed to exactly the right place side-to-side and then you have to use those same shims to set the carrier bearing preload. Once that’s done, you paint it down with pattern paint and see what you’ve got. If the pinion’s too deep or too shallow, you start over. It’s tedious and a lot of trial and error. This pic was the pattern when my buddy rebuilt mine.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

As mentioned, the D70 and D80 are probably the most difficult axles to set up. It’s all done with shims under pressed on bearings. You use a chart to determine the starting point for pinion depth, then for pinion bearing preload. If something’s not right, you start over. Once the pinion is correct, you have to set the shims under the carrier bearings. You must have it shimmed to exactly the right place side-to-side and then you have to use those same shims to set the carrier bearing preload. Once that’s done, you paint it down with pattern paint and see what you’ve got. If the pinion’s too deep or too shallow, you start over. It’s tedious and a lot of trial and error. This pic was the pattern when my buddy rebuilt mine.

View attachment 139319 View attachment 139320

Very interesting, that doesn’t sound too bad. Is this assuming I want to use new parts? I think we talked about me being able to put back what’s in there, carefully, and that the worn in parts settings are pretty much dishes unless I do something silly. We believe we know which carrier bearing cap is which so I’m hoping that’s the case. Thank you all SO MUCH for all the valuable insight.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

And I’ll presume clean out well with brake clean and maybe some gear oil to attempt a flush at some point, maybe after a few miles?

 

[brucejohnson]

And I’ll presume clean out well with brake clean and maybe some gear oil to attempt a flush at some point, maybe after a few miles?

Sounds like you have what it takes to undergo this challenge.
Clean is important for longevity. A FSM (factory service manual) is your best friend. Other sources can be equally good, like a known good YouTube video where you may get some good pointers. I'm old school and like a print version. Easier to jump back and forth in the steps for clarification to me. Study and understand each step before you do anything. Then use your OCD, deliberation, along with a helping of patience, and maybe a few extra "crushable" parts (shims) just in case Murphy shows up for the fun you are about to enjoy.
Best of luck. You can do this! If you have any questions the group here has the answers and guidance for the asking.

 

[NIsaacs]

I don’t know, fellows. I don’t think he’s got a lot to lose if he cleans it all up GOOD and puts it back together.

I agree. I didn't see anything serious at all. I would run it as is. The bearing preloads will be slightly loose, normal in a used axle. Bearings can run slightly loose a long time, tight and they will fail right away.

Like I said before, the caps and housing are marked. Usually with a v shape stamp. One side will be usually horizontal and one side vertical. Just match them. The housing marks will be on the gasket surface area and obvious on the caps.

#ad

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

I can’t thank you guys enough. Please don’t let me stifle any more input, I just wanted to express my appreciation. I do have a picture of the bearing cap on the right side, so we’ll be fine there. It has a sideways V on the bottom side. Luckily/miraculously I did capture that :lol:

 

[Ozymandias]

As mentioned, the D70 and D80 are probably the most difficult axles to set up. It’s all done with shims under pressed on bearings. You use a chart to determine the starting point for pinion depth, then for pinion bearing preload. If something’s not right, you start over. Once the pinion is correct, you have to set the shims under the carrier bearings. You must have it shimmed to exactly the right place side-to-side and then you have to use those same shims to set the carrier bearing preload. Once that’s done, you paint it down with pattern paint and see what you’ve got. If the pinion’s too deep or too shallow, you start over. It’s tedious and a lot of trial and error. This pic was the pattern when my buddy rebuilt mine.

View attachment 139319 View attachment 139320

The hack there is to use the shims between the races and the case instead, so they can be easily exchange up to the right thickness of the stack. Much easier then between the pressed on bearings on the carrier.

 

[Momilesmoproblems]

Man you guys are good. At this point, I need to use ALL
Of the current parts and nothing new, is that right?

Once the weather gets a little better and I have more time I’m going to blast the parts with brake clean and clean the inside of the housing like there’s no tomorrow, then fill it, then drive, then pray, then probably change the oil again after a short time. Truck was a daily but is not worked much if any harder than a car would be. I still have to buy a driveshaft since the previous one is non serviceable in the middle u joint. Please correct me if I’m wrong about any of this. Thank you SO much again and I look forward to further input

 

[bcbender]

Clean it real good, put it back together exactly as you took it apart, you can check the pattern to see if its waay off... but put a new pinion seal in and roll with it.. Worst outcome is as Scott said, it'll get real noisy and you'll have to go back and rebuild it.. but then thats just a bunch of labor you expend now. I had a Bronco with the 8.8 axle that broke all the spider gears.. (they spalled bad) and the RnP ran all that material through the gears like a rock crushing mill... I drove it for a year with it being noisy and the tone ring (spedo) jumping and it was fine.

( full disclosure I did not know they were bad, just it got noisier and decided to look when the spedo was really erratic and that's when I discovered the side gears were toast, and the RnP, and the bearings....)