FCA Recall 67A

[CoastyAV8R]

Interesting video of post-recall performance,

Looks like performance is the same. I'd be curious if DEF use goes up and how much mileage is impacted long term...

 

[brcbruiser]

New article from the EPA explaining the results of the investigation:

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/fre...ation-clean-air-act-vehicle-emission-system#6

 

[TimothyLong]

For anyone that's interested, it's been about 2 months since this recall was applied to my truck and I've noticed that it uses DEF faster and it seems to be going through more "min-Gen" cycles than before. I topped off my DEF back in December about the time I had it at the dealer to have the heater core replaced and it went through 1/2 a tank in about 6 weeks where I could go about 12 weeks before. Some of this might be due to having to sit in a traffic jam for 2.5 hours due to an accident on Route 50 heading home from Ocean City, MD a few days before the New Year. I also had to have the EGR Bypass Valve replaced (cable snapped), after the first of the year as well. I topped it off again about 2 weeks ago and so far the DEF gauge needle hasn't moved. So we'll see.

 

[AH64ID]

For anyone that's interested, it's been about 2 months since this recall was applied to my truck and I've noticed that it uses DEF faster and it seems to be going through more "min-Gen" cycles than before. I topped off my DEF back in December about the time I had it at the dealer to have the heater core replaced and it went through 1/2 a tank in about 6 weeks where I could go about 12 weeks before. Some of this might be due to having to sit in a traffic jam for 2.5 hours due to an accident on Route 50 heading home from Ocean City, MD a few days before the New Year. I also had to have the EGR Bypass Valve replaced (cable snapped), after the first of the year as well. I topped it off again about 2 weeks ago and so far the DEF gauge needle hasn't moved. So we'll see.

What is a min-gen?

 

[TimothyLong]

What is a min-gen?

It's like a normal regen cycle except that I don't get a notification in the EVIC for it, but I sure can smell it. It also doesn't seem to last as long as a normal regen. I've heard it referred to as a "mini-gen" cycle.

 

[AH64ID]

It's like a normal regen cycle except that I don't get a notification in the EVIC for it, but I sure can smell it. It also doesn't seem to last as long as a normal regen. I've heard it referred to as a "mini-gen" cycle.

Never heard that term.

There are active and passive regens. Only EVIC notifications are for active regens that don’t complete and the filter gets too full on an 13-18. Are you referring to a passive regen? I’ve never smelled a passive regen since they aren’t quite as hot as active regen.

The recall is for NOx and regen deals with soot, so there shouldn’t be any correlation.

 

[TimothyLong]

Never heard that term.

There are active and passive regens. Active always indicates in the EVIC, but passive never will. Are you referring to a passive regen? I’ve never smelled a passive regen since they aren’t quite as hot as active regen.

The recall is for NOx and regen deals with soot, so there shouldn’t be any correlation.

Yes, it is a passive regen. No mistaking that smell. Thanks for the correct terminology! The more I think about it, it's probably because I let my truck idle a bit more with the colder weather and the two events just happened to coincide.

 

[AH64ID]

Yes, it is a passive regen. No mistaking that smell. Thanks for the correct terminology! The more I think about it, it's probably because I let my truck idle a bit more with the colder weather and the two events just happened to coincide.

You won’t ever get to passive regen at idle, it takes a decent load to achieve high enough exhaust temps for passive regen. Generally 75 mph+ empty or towing, less than 18 mpg while driving is a good rule of thumb.

 

[Signal73]

It's like a normal regen cycle except that I don't get a notification in the EVIC for it, but I sure can smell it. It also doesn't seem to last as long as a normal regen. I've heard it referred to as a "mini-gen" cycle.

Do the earlier trucks get a dash message? I thought only the 2019+ would indicate regen, IF monitoring the DPF gauge on the evic.

 

[TimothyLong]

You won’t ever get to passive regen at idle, it takes a decent load to achieve high enough exhaust temps for passive regen. Generally 75 mph+ empty or towing, less than 18 mpg while driving is a good rule of thumb.

I only notice the regens happening on the highway (70 mph and empty). Had one happen this morning on my way into work. I was referring to the idling possibly causing the soot to build up faster, thus causing the passive regens to happen more often. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

 

[AH64ID]

Do the earlier trucks get a dash message? I thought only the 2019+ would indicate regen, IF monitoring the DPF gauge on the evic.

Great point, I need more coffee

13-18’s only indicate on the dash if there is an issue.

 

[AH64ID]

I only notice the regens happening on the highway (70 mph and empty). Had one happen this morning on my way into work. I was referring to the idling possibly causing the soot to build up faster, thus causing the passive regens to happen more often. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

That still won’t cause a passive regen to happen more often, those occur regardless of soot loading. You also won’t see any indications of a passive regen. You likely won’t smell them either, as they just aren’t as hot as an active regen and by the time you stop the DPF temp is generally too cold for passive regen.

Increased idle time does have the potential to increase active regens thou. Those can be felt, seen (sometimes), heard, and smelled. If your idle time is increasing active regens then I would consider changing your strategy. Too many active regens will dilute your oil with excessive fuel. The best scenario is a driving style that is all 24 hour regens and if you do have a soot based regen it’s infrequent.

 

[TimothyLong]

That still won’t cause a passive regen to happen more often, those occur regardless of soot loading. You also won’t see any indications of a passive regen. You likely won’t smell them either, as they just aren’t as hot as an active regen and by the time you stop the DPF temp is generally too cold for passive regen.

Increased idle time does have the potential to increase active regens thou. Those can be felt, seen (sometimes), heard, and smelled. If your idle time is increasing active regens then I would consider changing your strategy. Too many active regens will dilute your oil with excessive fuel. The best scenario is a driving style that is all 24 hour regens and if you do have a soot based regen it’s infrequent.

I do get messages pop up in my EVIC once in a while telling me that it's going through a regen cycle and there is definitely an odor then. The other times, like this morning, there is no message in the EVIC, but that same odor is present. It just doesn't last nearly as long (only a minute or so) as when I get the message in the EVIC. It's been doing that ever since it was new. My wife's 2013 does the same thing. If we're in her truck together and one happens, sometimes she can smell it and other times not, but she can definitely smell it when she gets the EVIC message. Maybe my olfactory senses are skewed.

 

[AH64ID]

I do get messages pop up in my EVIC once in a while telling me that it's going through a regen cycle and there is definitely an odor then. The other times, like this morning, there is no message in the EVIC, but that same odor is present. It just doesn't last nearly as long (only a minute or so) as when I get the message in the EVIC. It's been doing that ever since it was new. My wife's 2013 does the same thing. If we're in her truck together and one happens, sometimes she can smell it and other times not, but she can definitely smell it when she gets the EVIC message. Maybe my olfactory senses are skewed.

Getting an EVIC message on a 13-18 is a bad thing and not normal. It means your normal active regens are not able to complete and clean the DPF so the DPF is much fuller than it should be. With everything working like it should and with the proper driving habits the EVIC should never give you an indication on your, or your wives, truck.

An active regen that only lasts a minute is also not normal. Active regens are usually 15-20 minutes for 24 hour based regens and longer for soot based regens.

What are your idle hours relative to total hours?

What does your daily commute consist of?

 

[TimothyLong]

Okay, it's starting to sink in that my understanding of what active/passive regens are is incorrect (maybe I need more coffee). I thought that active regens only happened when you get the EVIC message. My bad! I must have misunderstood something I read about that a while back and it's stuck with me. So thanks for enlightening me!

As for the EVIC messages, I've only seen it 3, maybe 4, times since I've had the truck and I bought it new. I'd have to go look at the meter to tell you exactly what my idle/total hours are. My commute is 28 miles one way, and most of it is 4 lane driving (at ~70mph). As for extended idling, except for traffic, I only do that when the weather is cold and the engine is cold for ~10 minutes max. My wife's commute is about 1/2 of what mine is (she only works part time) and it's more stop and go driving. We've seen that message pop up in her truck maybe a couple of time more than mine and we got hers new as well.

 

[AH64ID]

Active regen will be initiated two different ways.

1) Time based. 24 hours after the completion of the last active regen an active regen will start. This occurs when the DPF soot loading is low.

2) Soot based. This occurs when the DPF is ~45% full.

I don’t recall the exact number, but I think that your EVIC won’t indicate anything until the DPF is 70% full.


I’d you’re curious about when active regens are happening, or if you’re getting any passive regen on your commute something like a CTS3 can tell you that info.

 

[TimothyLong]

Active regen will be initiated two different ways.

1) Time based. 24 hours after the completion of the last active regen an active regen will start. This occurs when the DPF soot loading is low.

2) Soot based. This occurs when the DPF is ~45% full.

I don’t recall the exact number, but I think that your EVIC won’t indicate anything until the DPF is 70% full.


I’d you’re curious about when active regens are happening, or if you’re getting any passive regen on your commute something like a CTS3 can tell you that info.

The time based regen seems about right to me (at least most of the time). I'll get 24 hours on the engine a bit quicker when adding in some extra idling time and that's probably what I'm noticing. Plus I've been running a few more errands the than I normally do the last couple of weeks, so that makes sense to me now.

As I recall, the last time I had that message pop up in the EVIC, it said that the DPF was 100% full and completed when it said the DPF was 70% full. It's been a while since I've seen it though.

Is the regen info something that AlphaOBD can monitor?