WIF part two 2022 3500 DRW HO

[sag2]

Although sitting long periods with a partially filled fuel tank in humid weather is probably the worst thing you can do, I can't imagine getting enough condensation to have the problem you experienced. Also, condensation is essentially distilled water, so there are no minerals to conduct a current path across the WIF sensor electrodes. So it is much harder to turn on the WIF light with condensation than it would be for water entering from ground water via contaminated fuel. Also the rear filter should be a 20+ micron for water stripping. Low micron (2-5) filters are not good at stripping water.

 

[dsatexas65]

Although sitting long periods with a partially filled fuel tank in humid weather is probably the worst thing you can do, I can't imagine getting enough condensation to have the problem you experienced. Also, condensation is essentially distilled water, so there are no minerals to conduct a current path across the WIF sensor electrodes. So it is much harder to turn on the WIF light with condensation than it would be for water entering from ground water via contaminated fuel. Also the rear filter should be a 20+ micron for water stripping. Low micron (2-5) filters are not good at stripping water.

Have certain brand you like, recommend?

 

[AH64ID]

@dsatexas65 stick with OEM filters. I'd buy them from Geno's for a better price than the dealership and a guarantee they are genuine.

Also the rear filter should be a 20+ micron for water stripping. Low micron (2-5) filters are not good at stripping water.

That's a generalization I can't agree with. Some of the best f/w separators I've seen are 4-7µ and some of the worst are >20µ. There is not reason to think that a 3µ filter can't be an excellent f/w sep.

I generally prefer to stage my filters micron ratings, 20->5->3, but the f/w separation ratings on the first two are usually very similar, if not identical.

I have read that the rear filter on the 13+ trucks is a 5µ filter and the engine mounted filter is a 3µ filter, both are f/w seps but I have seen no ratings on them, unlike 5.9 HPCR fitlers.

 

[Ozymandias]

Long term parking isn't a problem as the tank is a sealed unit with controlled air exchange. There is no breathing anymore like in the old days. There are valves controlling upper and lower pressure. So during a hot day it builds a slight pressure, at night a slight vacuum.
Even my twenty year old one is like that.

 

[AH64ID]

Long term parking isn't a problem as the tank is a sealed unit with controlled air exchange. There is no breathing anymore like in the old days. There are valves controlling upper and lower pressure. So during a hot day it builds a slight pressure, at night a slight vacuum.
Even my twenty year old one is like that.

What kind of pressure/vacuum will they build?

I’ve never noticed anything indicating the tank is at another other than ambient pressure.

 

[BigPapa]

I don’t see any EVAP valves or canisters like on a gasser.

 

[Diesel85]

Diesels don't have charcoal canisters or EVAP systems. Another reason I moved on from gassers.

Every single gasser I've ever owned, I always got haunted by EVAP codes by 60-70k miles that I had to chase down all the way to whenever I got rid of the vehicle. There were times I had to cheat the system to pass, especially on my last vehicle. There were plenty of times I failed and it was very frustrating. Most of the time it was the stupid P0456 (small leak!)......

I even went to the expense of getting an EVAP leak smoke machine, pressure and vacuum testers, etc.

Always chasing EVAP leaks on gassers.

Diesels just make more sense, and I feel they are easier to work on as they just make sense. Even the EcoD.

 

[Ozymandias]

It's a passive system, unlike the EVAP system.
That's why the fuel cap is thight.

 

[AH64ID]

It's a passive system, unlike the EVAP system.
That's why the fuel cap is thight.

There isn't a fuel cap anymore, and there isn't any pressure change when you depress the filler flapper.

 

[BigPapa]

From Alldata. This is the only mention of fuel tank pressure regulation or ventilation.

 

[Ozymandias]

From Alldata. This is the only mention of fuel tank pressure regulation or ventilation.

View attachment 140460

Thank you very much.

 

[AH64ID]

From Alldata. This is the only mention of fuel tank pressure regulation or ventilation.

View attachment 140460

There isn’t a fuel filler cap on the 21 trucks, so I’m not sure how it would alleviate pressure when it’s not there.

I’d also expect to hear a rush of air when opening the flapper to fuel the tank, and that doesn’t happen.

I did some looking too, and can’t find any information on a vent hose.

 

[petersonj]

I did some looking too, and can’t find any information on a vent hose.

Maybe there is a vent in the rollover protection valve like on my '02 truck. That vent on my truck is non restricted - flows either way (vacuum or pressure) as long as the truck is upright, therefore there is never any air transfer when removing my fuel cap.

- John

 

[Ozymandias]

Fuel tank is sealed, believe it or not. That's why you can roll-over these trucks without fuel leaking all over the place.

It isn't a big vacuum or pressure, just enough to keep it from breathing at temperature or altitude changes. This is really nothing new and the standard for a long time now.

Edit, on my truck and at your 05 you maybe remember the tank breather assembly(s) on top of the fuel tank. The one that we could add hoses and filters to.
You can not blow or suck air through it with your mouth, I tried that, there are little spring-loaded valves in it.

 

[petersonj]

Fuel tank is sealed, believe it or not. That's why you can roll-over these trucks without fuel leaking all over the place.

Are you saying there is no rollover protection valve in the newer trucks? The FSM mentions the rollover valve in my truck, but doesn't mention that it is a combination rollover and vent valve (which it is).

It isn't a big vacuum or pressure, just enough to keep it from breathing at temperature or altitude changes.

So what happens when the engine draws 20 gallons of fuel from the tank and the fuel cap has not been removed?

- John

 

[Turbo Terry]

I think you have to have a pretty good locking cap diesel and def. I bought the Genos. Who know when someone’s going to dump a beer or coke in you tank. Or a plastic water . People just do this . Bad but it’s how it is

 

[Ozymandias]

Are you saying there is no rollover protection valve in the newer trucks? The FSM mentions the rollover valve in my truck, but doesn't mention that it is a combination rollover and vent valve (which it is).



So what happens when the engine draws 20 gallons of fuel from the tank and the fuel cap has not been removed?

- John

There is a very slight vacuum in the tank.
Just enough that atmospheric pressure changes don't affect it.
It is a really simple basic system, I don't know what else I can say, it is like it is.

 

[NIsaacs]

From Alldata. This is the only mention of fuel tank pressure regulation or ventilation.

View attachment 140460

I can't see how the spring loaded flapper can relieve pressure. You would think it would seal tighter as pressure builds. I can see how it would relieve vacuum.

The system does have this vent, #3. https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/parts/mopar-filter-fuel-vapor-vent~68164876aa.html?vin=&make=Ram&model=3500&year=2019&submodel=Pickup&extra1=&extra2=&filter=(E=ETM;T=DF2;M=Tradesman Crew Cab 4WD)
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#ad

 

[AH64ID]

There is a rollover valve, but not the same as a 2nd gen. It’s part of the main fuel hose attachment to the tank, and what also prevents siphoning.

If the tank is under vacuum then it’s so slight that it’s imperceptible, meaning it has to vent somehow. The air rush on a 50 gallon tank that’s empty and under vacuum would be perceptible.

On the same token, an empty 50 gallon tank that’s been sitting in the sun all day after a cold night is likely to build some pressure that would be perceptible when you go to fill.