Electric Fan combined with washer fluid meth cooling on rad for towing.

[Darkbloodmon]

Shower thought: I know electric fans are beat to hell about how little they move and how they don't function in heavy towing applications, BUT, has anyone considered an electric rad fan set up paired with a washer fluid rad mist system?

Essentially you'd get some washer fluid line, a valve and, scrounge up some washer fluid nozzles from parts trucks; make two brackets to drop down in front of the rad on either side(behind intercooler) with the nozzles aimed. Route the hose to the primary washer fluid line on the truck and just put a T valve in an accessible location to divert from the windshield nozzles to the rad nozzles when in need for "maximum cooling for towing"

The methanol content in washer fluid is already used in add on water meth applications, I don't see why a fine mist being pulled into the rad by air flow and the fans wouldn't work.

 

[White2005]

How heavy are you and what type of conditions do you tow in?

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I don't have anything specific in mind, but for this example let's say i'm 8300 on curb weight, pulling a single car trailer with a 3500 on it.

 

[White2005]

I struggle with coolant and EGT temps, I think blankets and custom tuning is in my future versus another system to complicate things…

 

[AH64ID]

I struggle with coolant and EGT temps, I think blankets and custom tuning is in my future versus another system to complicate things…

What kind of temps are you seeing?

I agree on keeping it simple, the OEM fan system is hard to beat.

 

[White2005]

Not to hijack-

@AH64ID

We can easily hit 1200+ EGT and I don’t like my coolant above 220. Yes, my fan locks up- but it won’t drop the temps once I am heat soaked.

As an example:

We start at approximately a mile above sea level, and are over 10,000’ in less than an hour (without a load)…

The first thirty minutes gets us to 6,230 ft (which isn’t too bad, temperature wise) but then the climb starts, after the speed limit gets choked to 25 MPH- then increases to 55 MPH (and this is the easy side of the mountain).

And we scale around 23,000#



.

 

[AH64ID]

Not to hijack-

@AH64ID

We can easily hit 1200+ EGT and I don’t like my coolant above 220. Yes, my fan locks up- but it won’t drop the temps once I am heat soaked.

As an example:

We start at approximately a mile above sea level, and are over 10,000’ in less than an hour (without a load)…

The first thirty minutes gets us to 6,230 ft (which isn’t too bad, temperature wise) but then the climb starts, after the speed limit gets choked to 25 MPH- then increases to 55 MPH (and this is the easy side of the mountain).

And we scale around 23,000#



.

On a 2005, assuming the year based on your username, 1200° is nothing as that truck is designed to run 1450° all day long. The injection timing is quite retarded for emission which puts more heat out the exhaust.

As for coolant you should gave the fan run full lockup around 215-217° on stock programming. With the OE 190° thermostat you’re perfectly fine up to 225°, above that you likely have a cooling system issue (fan, radiator, etc).

Since the fan doesn’t drop the temp when in engaged it sounds like something isn’t working optimally, but it’s hard to say if that’s the fan or the radiator.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

This shower thought was tangent from this thread on Mechanical Fan Clutch options over the factory electric one.

Oddly specific parts aren't being made anymore and finding them is scarce or expensive when their condition is no better (age) than the truck it came off of. The more options we have going forward the better. A mechanical fan clutch is a viable option I think (currently using one). I want to do some testing and see if electric fans can be just as viable if not better with some modification.

I agree on keeping it simple, the OEM fan system is hard to beat.

10 years from now are you still going to find New OEM Parts? This was brought up in the linked thread before, the trucks are getting older and parts availability for "unique" pieces are hard to find or use given the condition of the truck it came off of.

Electric fans for daily driving empty, and a push button water meth cooling system when towing peaks seems like an innovative compromise to me.

As far as keeping things simple you've made some homebrew add ons as well, a coolant filter setup comes to mind.

 

[Mark31]

Something sounds fishy in Denmark. Won't cool off once heat soaked? Do you know for 100% sure your radiator (outside) is clean--no oil residue, road gunk, especially the bottom corners? As I'm sure you know, thermostats have been known to have quirks as they age: I saw one that had some faint "scratches" down one side. Your add-on fixes remind of a local that years ago hauled cows to market (OVERLOADED!!) with a 454 gas Chevy doolie. He mounted a radiator in the bed of the truck, put an electric fan on it, and plumbed it to the heater. When it got hot, he turned on the heater and fan.

 

[AH64ID]

This shower thought was tangent from this thread on Mechanical Fan Clutch options over the factory electric one.

Oddly specific parts aren't being made anymore and finding them is scarce or expensive when their condition is no better (age) than the truck it came off of. The more options we have going forward the better. A mechanical fan clutch is a viable option I think (currently using one). I want to do some testing and see if electric fans can be just as viable if not better with some modification.

The testing was done a LONG time ago, electrical fans are not a viable option for towing applications.

10 years from now are you still going to find New OEM Parts? This was brought up in the linked thread before, the trucks are getting older and parts availability for "unique" pieces are hard to find or use given the condition of the truck it came off of.

Maybe not new OEM, but OE style shouldn't be an issue. It's not that unique of a part. If you're that worried buy two now.

Electric fans for daily driving empty, and a push button water meth cooling system when towing peaks seems like an innovative compromise to me.

Seems like more to go wrong and more to rely on while towing. Sure the evaporative cooling effects would work (I use a hose on the radiator for stationary regens), heck you could use straight water for that, but the amount of water you would need to carry would be substantial.

As far as keeping things simple you've made some homebrew add ons as well, a coolant filter setup comes to mind.

Absolutely, but there are some systems that don't need modification. The OE cooling is one of those. Even the coolant filter, which is OE on many Cummins engines, had a drawback of the engine taking longer to warm up.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Maybe not new OEM, but OE style shouldn't be an issue. It's not that unique of a part. If you're that worried buy two now.

The lower shroud in question is specific to 2.5 model years of the 3rd gen 2500 and 3500 trucks, Mopar no longer makes the part, only the upper shroud. Buying used is problematic because it's a scarce part not being made and its old and brittle. Sellers know its hard to find and inflate the price because its the only option.

Seems like more to go wrong and more to rely on while towing. Sure the evaporative cooling effects would work (I use a hose on the radiator for stationary regens), heck you could use straight water for that, but the amount of water you would need to carry would be substantial.

It's not a complicated system, electric fans are automatically controlled by a probe and or a manual switch, radiator mister is integrated into your wiper fluid plumbing, push button no additional wiring. I don't think the amount of water would be that much, its a quick burst of water meth when the temps creep too high, not trying to ice the engine below its thermal efficiency. Majority of these trucks aren't towing, much less towing at max GVWR or greater around the clock. I'm sure anyone who does tow around the clock would consider otherwise. The idea is to take the edge off and make it more viable for a truck that doesn't tow often.

Absolutely, but there are some systems that don't need modification. The OE cooling is one of those. Even the coolant filter, which is OE on many Cummins engines, had a drawback of the engine taking longer to warm up.

The point of this idea is for a viable option to be explored because OE options are a shrinking bucket.

I could go pay 300.00 for a brittle lower plastic shroud just as old or older than my truck, another 150.00 for the NEW Mopar upper and another 500.00 for a NEW OE Mopar fan clutch. Maybe it'd be different if someone started 3D printing hard to find plastic pieces but no ones taking up that torch for the handful of trucks this part would apply for. When the options available aren't feasible for an application you modify and innovate a solution. A mechanical clutch conversion is an option, I think I can make an electric fan more feasible.

I'm not interested in an OEM option.

 

[Tuesdak]

electric fans are automatically controlled by a probe and or a manual switch

Electric fans are a restriction to a mechanical fan at RPM above idle. (See windmilling effect on airplane propellers that are not feathered.) A mechanical fan I tested for a shoehorned V8 was about 10,000 CFM with the hood closed and radiator A/C condenser assembly in place. Oh yeah and an engine in the way behind it. Electric fans maybe 5,000 CFM "freestanding" without all the restrictions in place. So the mechanical fan is seriously outrunning the electric fan making it into a restrictive 'generator' reducing the max CFM moved through the stack.

That 10,000 CFM gas engine fan when dropped in a 1993 GM diesel pickup because it was larger in diameter and sitting around didn't have enough "pitch" to the blade and made for a hot trip with the A/C off to keep from overheating. Replaced with a Duramax fan that moved a lot more air due to steeper blade pitch and no more cooling problems.

The only advantage to an electric fan is A/C at idle. They quickly run out of CFM when Light Duty becomes Heavy Duty.

The methanol content in washer fluid

The fluid would be better used pre-turbo than on the radiator. I really don't want to breathe washer fluid fumes from the radiator as off the windshield is bad enough. That can of worms aside: either solution would need a fuel tank load of water to use it enough to be worth the install. Grades go for miles and the pumps would be on full blast for miles. Otherwise why bother with less than 1 gal the washer fluid tank holds?

This kit has a 7 gal in the bed tank option. And "can of worms" they advocate post turbo injection.

https://www.glacierdieselpower.com/pages/understanding-water-methanol-injection-on-diesels

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I'll give my idea a shot and report back when I find a way to get 2K pounds in the bed without buying dinner. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[AH64ID]

I'll give my idea a shot and report back when I find a way to get 2K pounds in the bed without buying dinner. Thanks for the discussion.

2K in the bed isn’t a test.

I never once saw the thermostat go full open without towing on my 05, regardless of how much weight was is the bed or how high ambient temp was. The fan wasn’t even into play until 215° with OEM programming or 208° with my programming. The thermostat isn’t full open until 207°.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

2K in the bed isn’t a test.

I never once saw the thermostat go full open without towing on my 05, regardless of how much weight was is the bed or how high ambient temp was. The fan wasn’t even into play until 215° with OEM programming or 208° with my programming. The thermostat isn’t full open until 207°.

It was a joke, lighten up.

How many land whales do I need to "adequately" test? 2k was the max payload according to an 03 towing and weight rating chart for my 4x4 quad cab and wheel base configuration.

My intent was to load the bed and pull some grades near Asheville/Boone NC.

 

[AH64ID]

It was a joke, lighten up.

How many land whales do I need to "adequately" test? 2k was the max payload according to an 03 towing and weight rating chart for my 4x4 quad cab and wheel base configuration.

My intent was to load the bed and pull some grades near Asheville/Boone NC.

You need something that gets your coolant to 215° and see if it stabilizes or skyrockets.

 

[White2005]

On a 2005, assuming the year based on your username, 1200° is nothing as that truck is designed to run 1450° all day long. The injection timing is quite retarded for emission which puts more heat out the exhaust.

As for coolant you should gave the fan run full lockup around 215-217° on stock programming. With the OE 190° thermostat you’re perfectly fine up to 225°, above that you likely have a cooling system issue (fan, radiator, etc).

Since the fan doesn’t drop the temp when in engaged it sounds like something isn’t working optimally, but it’s hard to say if that’s the fan or the radiator.

I have been conservative due to the EDGE timing factors- We probably won’t pull that hill again until August. (Will probably have blankets by then along with adjusting the temperature alarms)

The north side is even more difficult- at 5,643’ the town speed limit is 20 MPH, then you top out above 10,000’ in less than a half hour.