02 8.3 with deceased inj. pump

[Prairie Dog]

My buddy has a 2002 Kenworth T300 with an 8.3 (non CR) and the injector pump (rotary style) is dead at just over 100K miles.
It has been acting up for a while but finally failed hard. He managed to limp it home and has a rebuilt pump from Cummins ($4k :{) to install in it. He's a professional self employed mechanic so he'll do the work himself.

I (we) have a couple of questions..

The pump died because he has junk in his tank that clogged the FF every 2~3K miles - the Cummins tech made that very clear to him! He knows he has to clean out the tank and I am badgering him to get a fuel pressure gauge. What pressure should he expect to see from the electric LP and how much of a psi drop is acceptable across the filter?

Since he drove this thing until it wouldn't go any farther, is there any chance the dying pump sent debris on to the injectors?

Thanks in advance,
Scott

 

[mwilson]

At 4,000.00 bucks it sounds like it might be a CAPS injection pump. If so they are troublesome anyways....

Post the ESN if you can, will ask Donnie the Cummins tech about it.

Mike.

 

[mwilson]

We may be able to find the fuel pressure stats as well. ESN is the way to go for accurate info.

 

[Prairie Dog]

OK thanks, I'll try to get it.

 

[Prairie Dog]

OK here goes:
Eng S/N #46098443
Eng CPL 2694
Injector-pump P/N was 4076442

Thx,
Scott

 

[mwilson]

That's a CAPS for sure. We have sold 6 of them in 12 months.

I will see what we can find out at lunchtime.

 

[mwilson]

Just reading the work orders, 4 of 5 also had lift pump failure. Sounds like the VP-44 scenario where a failed lift pump junks the injection pump.

I agree that he needs a gauge, idiot light or something to indicate lift pump failure.

I will find more out in a bit.

Mike.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Thanks Mike, we appreciate it.

Scott

 

[mwilson]

Looks like 5 PSI.

 

[mwilson]

Here is a restriction test...

 

[Prairie Dog]

Thanks so much Mike. That gives us everything we need to know. Even saves time trying to figure out where to attach a gauge.

Thanks again Mike,
Scott

 

[mwilson]

A few more things..

Donnie thinks that a healthy lift pump should carry about 15 lbs. The service manual is giving the minimum as you probably noticed already.

He also stated that the lift pump should be changed regardless and here is why.....We think that it is a requirement for warranty purposes. We had changed a VP-44 on a motor home this summer and it crapped out somewhere in Pennsylvania. We got a call from Cummins wanting proof that we had changed the lift pump at the same time. We indicated that it was indeed changed and billed out on the work order. That satisfied them and the customers was taken care of. If a lift pump had not been on there they were all ready to bill us for the replacement VP-44 and labor.
We change the lift pump on both the "B" and "C" engines as standard procedure. He may want to do the same and I would even go one step further by suggesting that he get the lift pump from Cummins, have them reverse the invoice for the CAPS pump and then bill the CAPS pump and lift pump on the same invoice so that there is no question in the event of a warranty failure. Lot of money at stake here even if he is doing it himself.

It would be a shame to lose $4,000.00 in parts warranty coverage over a $300.00 or so lift pump.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Hmm, good to know about the LP. I'm not sure I can talk him into it since he replaced it a couple of years ago (it was leaking).
But I will let him know the deal and maybe he should contact Cummins NW about the LP requirement.
That also makes sense about the output. 5 psi min but about 15 in real life.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Mike, I just talked to my friend and he will look into the LP and also check his LP pressure.
BTW, he thinks the LP shuts off after 30 seconds or so after you turn the key on and doesn't run with the engine running. That doesn't sound right to me - what do you think?

He said it idles smoother than it has in the past but that he feels it's down on power a little.
He's wondering if there's some kind of procedure that Cummins does with a piece of proprietary equipment after an injector pump is replaced? Maybe it makes some kind of adjustment..?

Scott

 

[mwilson]

Boys, that is a good question. If you re-read the vacuum test it almost sounds that way. But I think they run all of the time. I will get a better answer later on tonight.

 

[JR]

The electric lift pump on our Grove 9130 (8.3 Cummins engine) crane runs for about that long and shuts off if the engine is not running. I know this because one of the other operators ran it out of fuel and I was nominated to stay after and get it running as it was needed first thing the next day. Of course, the lift pump and injection pump are on the opposite side of the cab and sits down under the deck in between the main frame, so I would have to cycle the key, run like a mad man around the deck of the crane, get down on my stomach and watch for fuel coming out of the line to the injection pump. Once I verified fuel to the pump I had to do the same with the injectors: loosen a couple, go back to the cab and crank the engine for 10 or 15 seconds, go back around, check, tighten, loosen, repeat. Probably made 20 trips back and forth before it fired.

What kind of gunk is in the tank? Algae? He's gonna have fun getting rid of that if that's what he has. I had to help my cousin drop his tank earlier this summer because he had a bad case of the blooms. He tried draining the tank and blowing the lines out and changing filters but it kept coming back so we dropped it out and used an algaecide to kill everything then pressure washed the tank out. Not a fun ordeal.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Boys, that is a good question. If you re-read the vacuum test it almost sounds that way. But I think they run all of the time. I will get a better answer later on tonight.

I had to re-read that 5 or 6 times and I'm still not sure. It seems like the purpose of the vacuum test is to make sure the supply for the LP isn't restricted.

 

[BDaugherty]

Down on power could well be retarded timing Related to the IP install or even trash passed on to the injectors...but more likely low fuel psi. I'm going to work on a motorhome with this same engine in the next day or two so I'm following this thread closely. The one I have to fix has fuel leaking from the lift pump area and won't start. Don't have any other info.

 

[Prairie Dog]

The tank has been cleaned and there's no timing to set with this Inj. Pump.

 

[mwilson]

I'm beginning to think that your friend is correct. That pump only guarantees a primed start the more that I ponder it.