Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) '02 VP44 Failures, kind of long.

[MVieira]

I'm leaving this weekend to go hunting in Alberta Canada and won't be back until October 4th. I'll pull my VP44 the week I get back and take it into Diamond Diesel in West Sacramento to be rebuilt. They were almost sure that the diaphram plate would be cracked. I'll ask them for the old parts back and take pictures and if I can figure out how to post them I will or at least give a report back. It seems most people just get a rebuilt unit and turn their old one in for a core so I haven't seen alot of feed back on what failed on other people's VP44's. Also alot of people get thier's covered under warranty so they have no control over their old parts.

Regards, Mike.

 

[rweis]

Let's assume the diaphram plate is cracked.



Supposedly the correct psi is 13. 5 +-3. Have you maintained that psi range?



I think that it might be the diaphram seals from a post by Brett at II that said that there is a 5mm deflection tolerance in the diaphram before the diaphram seals begin to be damaged from insufficient or excessive pressure.



Secondly if it is a pump built (or rebuilt) after I think feb 03 then there is a Bosch upgrade to that diaphram to make it tougher (any VP rebuilder certainly chime in here to correct this if I am not correct). I am not sure what was done to the diaphram, but I get the feeling it is a better material and maybe heavier duty seals less prone to failure.



I for one would be REALLY interested in WHAT happened and even more in WHAT was the probable CAUSE.



Good luck in your hunting trip and REALLY eager in looking for your results from Diamond Diesel.



Bob Weis

 

[DonFitzwater]

Looks like that extended warranty plan I bought might just pay off! Bought the truck at 59,000 and got my first VP44 at 60,121. No bombs and a woman driver? Dealer installed new ip and in tank lp setup. Its getting Juice w/attitude next month so we'll see how long it lasts. I wonder how difficult it is to put that P7100 on afterall? Has anyone done this on a daily driver? If you have, send me an email about it. Thanks. This sure sounds like planned obsolescence to me!

 

[Crazygoat]

Add me to the list of dead pumps! '01 (feb model) and the pump started failing around 55K miles very little towing. Due to my ignorance and the dealers weaseling around, they just changed the LP and sent me home just to have the LP fail after another 8 months. Now I am 1 month after my 5yr warranty at 70K miles and they refused to change the VP. I think with all these failures we could do a CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT!



So here I am just forked out over $2K to buy a new VP from Industrial Injection and a Glasier system to do what should have been designed properly dince the beginning.



JC

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I'm leaving this weekend to go hunting in Alberta Canada and won't be back until October 4th. I'll pull my VP44 the week I get back and take it into Diamond Diesel in West Sacramento to be rebuilt. They were almost sure that the diaphram plate would be cracked. I'll ask them for the old parts back and take pictures and if I can figure out how to post them I will or at least give a report back. It seems most people just get a rebuilt unit and turn their old one in for a core so I haven't seen alot of feed back on what failed on other people's VP44's. Also alot of people get thier's covered under warranty so they have no control over their old parts.

Regards, Mike.

I'll be sending my recently swapped out OEM VP-44 in to II in a few weeks as well - but will be firmly requesting only the failed parts to be replaced, unless overall failure/expense make a full rebuild the only sensible option.



I've used PS fuel additives and 2-stroke oil since the truck was new, pretty much always had excellent fuel PSI - so can't imagine my P0216's were related to a mechanical failure - I'm betting on an electronics failure, possibly due to overheating of components due to underhood heat. Engine ran great right up to VP replacement - just too many 216's to ignore...



I'll certainly post an autopsy report when the pump is returned.

 

[DieselLady]

. Any ideas out there on my BD exhaust brake concerns?

Sorry to tell you this but if you had gone with ATS Torque Converter and Valve body you would be able to hold lock up in 2nd and 1st gear. All the way down to 8 mph if you wanted.

I towed my 36ft triple slide down 10mph switch backs from Big Bear with no problem. Works great and saves much $$$ on brakes.

 

[Schlickenmeyer]

Well I am on original VP and my 2nd lift pump. (replaced when the engie was out for a crankshaft at 101k). Guess I am one of the lucky ones. Mabye I should start saving now...

 

[mhenon]

The whole VP/LP/fuel delivery system seem to be all over the place when it comes to reliability. Some guy's have "zero" problems and others are losing LP's and VP's like they're going out of style. The replacement VP's, at least, seem to be holding up.

This is just a fragile system for an otherwise rugged engine. Ever notice we talk about nothing else on the 24 valve engine..... nothing!

Mike

 

[MVieira]

Just to follow up on this thread, I got back from my hunting trip and I pulled my VP44 last weekend and dropped it off at Diamond Diesel, in West Sacramento, to be rebuilt on Monday. Margret called me back first thing Tuesday morning to advise me not to rebuild my original pump. She said they checked the date code on my '02 VP44 and by that date code the housing and the pistons were going to have to be replaced/updated, which would run the cost of the rebuild up to around $1,400 and that was if they didn't find anything else wrong. So I went with their off the shelf exchange rebuilt pumps for $1,095. I've been fighting off a head cold this weekend but as soon as I feel better I'll put it on. I asked Margret if they could track my old pump when it goes to their main shop in Oakland to be rebuilt to find out what exactly caused the P0216 code, and instances of dead pedal and rough running and she said they rebuild 30 pumps a day there but she would try to get a report back for me.

Regards, Mike.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Margret called me back first thing Tuesday morning to advise me not to rebuild my original pump. She said they checked the date code on my '02 VP44 and by that date code the housing and the pistons were going to have to be replaced/updated, which would run the cost of the rebuild up to around $1,400 and that was if they didn't find anything else wrong.

DANG IT!



I was very specific to II when I sent them my recently replaced OEM VP-44 to be checked out/repaired - told them I wanted the ORIGINAL back, not just an off the shelf rebuilt replacement. I figured that all the lubricity additives I've been using since the truck was new SHOULD have kept the mechanical parts in good condition, and figured my problem was more likely electronics.



Got a call from one of the II techs a few days later, sorta puzzled as to why I had sent it in, their initial test stand analysis didn't show any codes set, or any other problems. BUT, part of that conversation included his comment that they would go ahead and tear into it to dig deeper for any issues - and that IF that pump had "brass" or maybe he said "bronze" cylinders, that would be a bad thing, since whatever/wherever they are inside the pump, he said they were one of "Bosch's biggest mistakes"



SO, dunno where that leaves me concerning fixing my pump - hope that whatever gets returned proves to be the "latest and greatest" of available options - and that insisting on getting my own original pump returned to me wasn't one of MY biggest mistakes... :-laf

 

[MVieira]

Gary, I was kind of disappointed that it wasn't feasable to rebuild my pump. I only had 31,000 miles on it and I've used Stanadyne performance formula since the truck was new. Margret said that my '02 VP44 housing had to be changed/updated because they made some changes to the injection pump housing and front shaft support bearing, something to do with excessive clearance/sloppyness between the shaft and bearing. The other thing my VP44 needed to be updated was the pistons and sleeves, they were the brass/bronze type and they are changed to steel now, so what II said makes sense. Margret also said that they have had updates to the solenoid, the diaphram plate, and the electronics also. She said that the rebuilt units that are done by Bosch certified rebuilders have all the current updates in them and she said they don't see hardly any failures with the updated pumps. She also reminded me that the lift pumps are still an issue which I've taken care of. Regards, Mike.

 

[rweis]

I got some of the same information from the SouthEast Power rebuilders about the brass (I think if I recall correctly) advance piston was changed to steel. Lots of problems with durability. I do not remember addressing the pump plungers per se with SouthEast Power. The diaphram plate was an issue they (SEP) discussed though, as well as the PSG (electronics).



Seems that MAYBE we have lived THROUGH the field testing, and the VP44's will have a longer MTBF that we can live with.



The last couple of threads also lend themselves to the concept that there are newer housings "they made some changes to the injection pump housing and front shaft support bearing" when once upon a time many of us did not think Bosch was making newer housings.



I would sure like to know how the "newer" rebuilds are doing as a group. I think it would be very difficult to gather that information since like MVieira and Gary indicate it takes rebuilder detailed knowledge to know if a frame should or should not be rebuilt and what the "upgrades" are based on that particular frame and date.



I get the feel from the threads that the newer rebuilds are functioning reasonably well. Still an expensive part to replace, but it is becomming much more common place that users (at least TDR members) replacing their own VP44's as the speciality tools and procedures are becomming known and used.



I still think the OAT air supply / blower concept is valid during engine operation and after shutdown, and some sort of limiting the temperature of the "cooling" fuel to something below 125* or so. Just some way of generally managing the VP44 heat issues.



We just might be past this design "issue", thankfully it was a Bosch pump rather than a DC pump or it may have never have been "updated" (read that as automatic transmissions (47RE leaks etc) / manual gear boxes (nuts etc).



Bob Weis

 

[Stark_Ent9802]

hey guys, just thought i would pitch in... . My VP and LP went at 65k. . Both warrrenty covered. . Now i have the in the tank pump, and have had a Edge EZ on the truck for the last 5k... now at 82k no problems at all ... nock on wood !

 

[GForsthoff]

VP44 Woes

I bought my truck in Jan. "02 new. First injector pump gone at 32,000 miles, put in new upgraded rebuilt with the heavy duty plate and at 61,000 here we go again but no 0216 fault code just a dead truck at rush hour traffic. There is a fault code that reads "c-cpu" but dealer says it is injector pump. I installed a Bully Dog Big Fuel kit in it last summer and maintained 22-24 psi at W. O. T. I just can't figure what makes these p. o. s. 's go out at such a regular interval. Luckily this is still a warranty instal even though I have an Edge chip. I wonder if that has anything to do with these failures? Has any body done a study to see if these performance chips are stressing the pumps to failure? May be interesting.

 

[justinp20012500]

02 ETH 38,000 = 0216



01 ETC (Twins, BFG Injectors, etc) 80,000+ = still OEM VP

 

[DieselLady]

99 just turned 103000+ running edge comp since around 30k miles. Currently 450 horseys and 15. 0 in the quarter mile. Still running OEM pump. Have my fass since 75k miles turned down to a solid 9 psi. Can't get less than 9 psi even at WOT. Knock on wook!!!!

 

[Schlickenmeyer]

So if I may go sideways a bit, where is this diaphragm located, and can it be replaced or updated without a complete rebuild? If this is one of the failure points for this unit, I was hoping it would be easy to upgrade. .



2001 HO stock VP 110k

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

So if I may go sideways a bit, where is this diaphragm located, and can it be replaced or updated without a complete rebuild? If this is one of the failure points for this unit, I was hoping it would be easy to upgrade. .



2001 HO stock VP 110k

I just tried something vaguely similar to what you suggest - my VP started tossing P0216's at 42K miles - I thought it would be neat to actually pinpoint what had failed in my pump, since I had carefully monitored fuel PSI, added a pusher pump and LOTS of upgraded fuel filtering - and used fuel lubricity additive with EVERY tank of fuel...



Sent the pump in to II (great place to do business with, by the way!), and request that ONLY failed parts be replaced - and ALL those replaced to be sent back to me. In my case, it turns out mine was one of relatively FEW VP's manufactured with a brass internal fuel timing cylinder - that had proved to be extremely prone to early failure.



The only fix for mine was a complete NEW VP case that uses a hardened steel cylinder bore rather than the brass - a few minor incidental internal parts were replaced at the same time - O-rings, roller "shoes", and that was about it! All the rotating assembly, bearings, diaphragm, internal computer board, all were within spec and reinstalled.



Final cost - $950.



A new, completely rebuilt VP-44 can be had from II for $1100 - some places are a bit less. II followed my direction PERFECTLY, and did exactly as I asked - I *did* find exactly what was wrong with my pump, and determined that my added stuff was apparently doing as I expected, and the actual failure was an unavoidable (by ME!) design flaw.



Was the $200 savings worth it?



YOU decide! :-laf



You may well find as I did, that replacing only a single small failed part will cost nearly as much as the complete rebuild - after all, MOST of the internals must be completely disassembled and inspected for even a small repair/replacement - and the labor and final testing runs labor costs pretty much the same as the whole job anyway...

 

[WTBurke]

My late year 2001. 5 manufactured in June and purchased in August 01 did the dead peddle thing at 72K



I was with Evan A. Beck in Seattle before this happened and the first thing he asked me was, "Where is your fuel pressure gauge?"



I didn't have one but, I checked it every once in a while with the Geno's unit.



Evan was not pleased with my answer. Sure enough... as time went by and I experienced the loss of the VP (and yes went through the BS with the local Dodge dealer) and got a new VP at 74k. The factory LP was sputtering along at next to nothing... heck... I can pee better than that...



I share this because my late 01. 5 most likely had the 02 VP. I have no mods except for the open straight pipe exhaust.



I redid my entire fuel delivery system and "YES Evan... I monitor fuel pressure now... . I'm at 123k and all is well.



I have been reading threads about this for years... I firmly belive that the first step in preventing 95% of our losses is to monitor our fuel delivery system.



I work in the "pump industry" (no not VP-44's) and the worst thing you can do to any pump is starve it or worse yet... dry stroke it. I'm sorry to use slang terms here but, guys we have an issue and I truly hope the 'improvements' from Bosch will hold for the long run. But! we gotta feed them correctly!



If Evan A. Beck says his replacements are holding as posted... . then this is a good report.



I would hate to foot a VP-44 out of pocket.



Regards

William

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

My late year 2001. 5 manufactured in June and purchased in August 01 did the dead peddle thing at 72K



I was with Evan A. Beck in Seattle before this happened and the first thing he asked me was, "Where is your fuel pressure gauge?"



I didn't have one but, I checked it every once in a while with the Geno's unit.

YUP!



I sorta have to smile at the guys who "occasionally" check fuel PSI - or "occasionally" will add some fuel lubricity additive to a tank of fuel...



Sorta like only "occasionally" taking your heart medicine with your KNOWN weak heart! :-laf



SURE, lots of guys get by with little or NO extra effort for their fuel system for tens of thousands of miles - others are lucky, and trade off their neglected trucks, and the NEXT owners gets to foot the bill for their indifference and carelessness.



But I am well aware of the weaknesses in my truck, especially the fuel system - and a fuel PSI gauge back on a shelf in the garage - alongside that bottle of fuel additive WON'T help my pump any more than the forgotten bottle of heart medicine in the medicine chest will help me avoid a heart attack!