03 No start?

[MarkEkberg]

My 03 6 speed is not starting. Turning over what appeared to be slow to me, colder it got the slower it cranked. Was able to fire on ether, and once warm does fine.

1st thought was batteries. At least five years old so I replaced them. Started fine but had not gotten cold again.

Once cold no start again. Plugged in for a few hours, no start? The volt gage does not drop while grid heater is running. I can hear the solenoid operating, and lights get a little brighter when WTS light goes off.

I think I need to check the grid heater first to see if operating. Is there some directions to do this?

 

[Tuesdak]

Check battery cables for internal corrosion. Remove and clean the battery cable grounds on the engine. Check voltage at starter while cranking. Check voltage drop on all battery cables while cranking. I do not know the specifics of the Cummins starter, but, I have seen other diesels loose 1-2 of the 4 brushes in the starter and crank at 1/2 the normal speed. Just because the starter spins doesn't mean it's any good - aka spinning fast enough. It takes RPM to generate heat to light off the diesel so if it sounds like it's cranking slow to you - it is. There has to be a minimum cranking RPM spec hot/cold you can check.

Ether, grid heaters and/or glow plugs do not mix. The block heater IMO would make up for the grid heater and some can start without the grid heater.

 

[MarkEkberg]

I figured I would test the heater, then do grounds. Starter is OE as is grid heater and all cables.

The block heater has me stumped a bit. On my last diesel the block heater would allow truck to fire with no assistance at all? Maybe it is starter related?

I know ether is a bad mix with gp's and heaters. I wait till the heater cools and then give it a sniff.

 

[Slow Six]

When I had this problem with my 03 it was injectors and crossover tubes. With the HPCR the ECM has to see a minimum pressure on the rail before it will fire the injectors. If you have a leak or leaks and the pressure is not reached you have no start. With mine it was an intermittent problem. I installed new batteries and I thought the problem was solved but only lasted a few days. I had to bite the bullet and changed injectors and crossover tubes and all was good until it was time to do it again. You can run tests to see if it is only one injector but if one is gone others may follow. I just seen on your last post that you have some miles on it plus you have a tuner. Depending on what your tuner does these injectors do not like increased pressure. I went back to stock every thing on my 03 and had a lot fewer problems.

 

[cerberusiam]

Is it still turning slow with the new batteries? If that hasn't been resolved it likely won't start correctly cold.

 

[BDaugherty]

I had the same experience as slow six. My injectors were so worn that the truck could not build enough rail pressure at cranking speed for the ecm to turn the injectors on. A quick shot of ether would spin the engine a few hundred rpm faster which would pump more fuel and it would start. The best way to troubleshoot would be with a scan tool that reads rail pressure. My '03 takes about 900psi to start, newer trucks will take more psi. On a properly functioning system, the rail psi will climb so fast you won't be able to track it. Before my new injectors, I could crank until the batteries went flat and not get pas 850 psi.
My suspicion with your block heater comment is thatbit was 't plugged in long enough.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Further investigation revealed the breaker for the outlet block heater was plugged into was tripped..... Reset breaker, let it sit for a few hrs and it fired right up. Just my gut feeling, but it does seem to turn over a bit slower than I remember. Not entirely sure.

So now I am back to testing the grid heater and cleaning grounds.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Well got the heater off and tested. Only 2 ohms resistant on one of the elements and 3ohms on the other. And no resistance in the ground wire at all. So that is good I guess.

Going to test my "new" batteries and start cleaning connections. Hoping its there cause i really don't want to buy injectors right now........

 

[Tuesdak]

See if you can rent an optical handheld tachometer just to make sure your cranking RPM is high enough. Again your noted 'it's slower cranking' is likely correct. It may be slower due to cold weather, but, make sure.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Put everything back together and tested for voltage at the grid heater. It was only reading 10v while cycled on. I doubt there should be a voltage drop to the grid leads, but on both of them it was only 10v.

I dawned on me I should be getting lots of smoke while cranking. No smoke at all with long crank so that tells me no fuel going into cylinder.

I cleaned all connections and I am now at a crossroads. Starter or injectors. Guess I need to find someone that can tell me my rpm during crank as stated above.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Got home today, it was about 34 degrees. Tried to start and no go, no smoke, just cranking. This is getting strange. Thought that was very strange so I threw the battery charger on it and it is pulling over 4amps.

Going to charge over night and see what happens in the morning to start.

 

[cerberusiam]

If it starts when plugged in you have a pretty good answer.

Grid heater is not needed at those temps for starting, only an emissions device.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Have it narrowed down to starter or old injectors. Not sure how to determine which one is the culprit? I cleaned connections, everything looked good.

Left batteries disconnected and tested them again tonight, passed with flying colors.

So,,,,,,, If injectors are bleeding off pressure I assume I should be cranking good and fast still? I have to get to someone I know who can give me my cranking speed.

If my crank speed is good I am looking at injectors. If this is my road to go, where should I be headed and how much vaseline will I need?

At 35 degrees it started today without being plugged in, but it took a long crank.

 

[cerberusiam]

You can get the BMS 50's for around $2100 about anywhere. Stock new will run another $500. BBI's are about $3300. A set of cross over tubes are $200-250.

 

[MarkEkberg]

re-read everything above.

I need 900psi for rail pressure to fire.

What cranking rpm do I need?

Have appointment set up to read data today after work.

 

[cerberusiam]

As a rule you need about 3000 psi to get the ECU to fire the injectors in a CR. Cranking rpm should be in the 200-250 rpm range for best effects.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Previous poster said 900psi, and your saying 3000psi. Was the 900psi for a non CR engine?

 

[cerberusiam]

A non-CR engine would be a jerk pump so it doesn't really apply. You might get them to fire at 2000-2500 psi but even that is doubtful. As a rule 3000 psi is the target for good ignition properties. It is hard to get exact readings on RP for event initiation because the sensors don't sample fast enough to catch the exact pressure. Most if not all will sit a 1500 psi and never fire a cylinder.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Got it. Thanks for he info. Should find out my real numbers tomorrow.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Here is what I have found out..........

When I threatened the truck with going to the doctor sure as shat stinks it turned over faster this morning and fired up with no issue? WTH?

Went down to see what the scanner said about the old girl.

Had the following codes 202 and 201. These are injector codes, but I forgot to plug in the harness at the front of the engine (and tried to start) when I put the grid heater back in so I am assuming this is where these codes came from.

Had 403 code. This has something to do with the fan at the wrong speed? Not sure where this one came from?

Numbers that seemed to be involved in this situation are as follows:

1. Fuel Regulator voltage, key on, not running was .5v
2. Desired fuel set pressure, currently set at 5802. This is what the scanner said and I am not sure this can/should be changed.
3. Once started (still cranking fast) warm at idle, Fuel pressure was bouncing around ranging from a low of 3500, to a high of 6400, according to the scanner.
4. Fuel Pressure Regulator, at idle, was at 32%
5. Cranking rpm was at a low of 230rpm, and maxed at 300 before starting. But of course it is turning over faster now v/s last couple weeks.

Does this give me any information?