03 No start?

[cerberusiam]

Fuel pressure was bouncing around ranging from a low of 3500, to a high of 6400,

Should not do that, couple hundred psi but not that much. Possibly FCA is worn and causing the issues or the RP sensor is failing.

 

[MarkEkberg]

So where do I go from there? Start throwing parts at it, or wait till it will never start?

Sometimes had a issue like this with my 96 stroke. Banged my head against the wall throwing parts it it until I finally got it.

 

[cerberusiam]

Replace the FCA and verify you have good lift pump pressure to the CP-3, that is the cheapest and easiest thing to start with.

 

[Ozymandias]

Or first, just unplug the fca and try starting.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Alright. I need to know what some of the acronyms mean? And where some of these pieces are so I can learn a bit.

This truck mechanically is new to me and only a recreational driver at this point. I have been a Ford guy for 25 years. Switched 3 years ago. Have learned the chassis differences but engine has been very sound.

 

[Ozymandias]

Flow control actuator, on the back outside of the high pressure pump towards the fuel filter.
Tkencare when unplugging the connector is a little bit breaky.

 

[cerberusiam]

FCA is fuel control actuator, it is the only component on the back of the CP-3, injection pump, that has an electrical connection. It's job is to meter fuel into the high pressure side of the CP-3 to pressurize the rail. It is controlled by a PWM signal form the ECU based on demands in the fuel system calculated from APPS position, rpm, load, etc. When it wears and\or just fails to set correctly rail pressure fluctuates. At an idle or start scenario it will long crank, not start, die, etc.

Lift pump is on the back of the fuel filter housing (or in the tank if not there), get yourself a tapped banjo bolt to use at the CP-3 inlet for a LP pressure gauge or quick tap for a mechanical to check pressure. Search for a CP-3 operations and break down, this will help explain a lot http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/parts-accessories/1204dp-inside-the-bosch-cp3-injection-pump/.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Makes more sense now. Thanks. Seeing that we are going to have super weather this week I will get out there and do some more testing.

I can hear the tank pump cycle on key on. Goes up and down a bit with the cycling of the grid heaters. P/O had the f/p change done.

Thanks for the link. Will be doing some reading today.

Still hoping it is a simple non injector fix like this FCA. Injectors are not in the funds right now.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Done some reading about the FCA. It appears it is for a rough idle or rough high idle. I have had the rough high idle for as long as I can remember so it seems my FCA is toast regardless.

In reading more about the fca I see that it is disabled for the first 30 seconds to allow full pressure to the cr system. If this is correct it should not be affecting my no start issue right, unless it is completely stuck in a position that lowers start pressure? This little gadget seems very similar to the IPR regulator on my 7.3.

Stated above I can disconnect and try to start. This isn't going to tell me anything will it?

Further reading found that I can have a bad relief valve allowing too much fuel pressure out of system?

I am going to get it warm tonight and take temp readings at the head to make sure all injectors are firing.

 

[Slow Six]

Hate to bear bad news but my experience with my 03 was injectors and like you they were never in the budget even the second time. Just had to put on my big boy pants and get it done.

 

[TCDiesel]

Some good info in this thread and some not so good, YOU need 1850PSI cranking pressure on 2003-7 5.9, this is the pressure needed for the pressure sensor (The sensor itself is circuit board and Module) to send signal (VIA Input) to the ECM ,the signal is pick up and the hot hole is fired, Now the engine must start almost instantly or the pressure drops and the signal is cut to the ECM, You need minimum 2250PSI for hydro injector to operate, many things can cause your problem of long crank or NO start. You are welcome to call Me, and you can post the fix and results.

In most cases if the truck Starts W/either its almost away Injectors ,return rates are to High above 110ML Per/min at Idle. New perfect rate per (6) Cummins Injectors 60-70ML Per/min at idle.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Going to give you a call, but for myself and everyone else I have questions. Learning curve is steep right now. See questions below. Have to wait for time change so your up and awake.

I have ordered a FCA because I have about every symptom of a faulty one except for the stalling. Just thought it was personality of truck. There is a chance this will correct, but I think it is the same odds as Clinton getting into office.

Some good info in this thread and some not so good, YOU need 1850PSI cranking pressure on 2003-7 5.9, this is the pressure needed for the pressure sensor (The sensor itself is circuit board and Module)

Is this what I was reading with scanner? And what was posted for 3000psi earlier?
Can this switch be faulty? If so how do I test or do I just replace?

to send signal (VIA Input) to the ECM ,the signal is pick up and the hot hole is fired, Now the engine must start almost instantly or the pressure drops and the signal is cut to the ECM, You need minimum 2250PSI for hydro injector to operate, many things can cause your problem of long crank or NO start. You are welcome to call Me, and you can post the fix and results.

Will post result absolutely. Been doing lots of searches with people throwing lots of parts with no fix. Even injectors don't fix what I am experiencing with other peoples trucks and they are super ******. That being said I want to make sure I don't need injectors yet.

In most cases if the truck Starts W/either its almost away Injectors ,return rates are to High above 110ML Per/min at Idle. New perfect rate per (6) Cummins Injectors 60-70ML Per/min at idle.


It will start with sniff of ether, any diesel would. I think my real issue is injectors not firing under crank. Can I read return rates on injectors via scanner, or is this a mechanical test?

 

[TCDiesel]

Its extremely unlikely that any FCA will cause NO start or long crank start, When cranking the FCA voltage should be 1.5V-0, AT 0V the FCA is WOT,FCAs will almost always cause some type of idle loop or miss long before they fail, at times it will also cause surging when driving.

The LV or PRV will cause long cranking before starting, ALL LV/PRV leak over time ,its just a question of how much.

Yes, I have lost count on how many owners replace injectors after the shop or test facility stated they were bad, just to have the same problem occur.

You must have special tools to test the return rates, OTC makes them, We do also the T&C adapters are much more user friendly then OTC.

Common Rail motors do NOT conform to logic they conform to experience.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Work issues have been crazy last couple days. Just did some more sniffing around yesterday and found this info below. Now as a layman I need to figure out some of these testing methods.


Preliminary checks
1.Record and repair any active DTC, they may be related to complaint
2.Ensure that you have a good clean fuel supply and good supply pressure.
3.Check for available re-flash updates. There are several for these trucks related to common problems.


No Start or Hard Start
1.No or low fuel supply, should be 10-15 PSI at idle, to the high pressure injection pump(CP3).

Saw some ideas on you tube. I have the converted in tank pump so I doubt it is the problem but I need to check to make sure

2.Monitor rail pressure and see if you have over 4000 PSI during cranking, if not one or more injectors can cause a hard start, see injector section for further diagnostics. No smoke from the tailpipe after about 10 seconds of cranking means no fuel is getting into the cylinders.

I have no smoke, so no fuel on hard start. Scanner is not showing 4K but from is said here I have enough RP

3.Injector high pressure connector tube (feed tube) not seated in injector, bad tube or improper torque (final 37 ft lbs) on nut.

No idea how to check this. Want to rule out external possibilities first.

4.Leaking high pressure limit valve, should not leak at idle or during cranking.

This can be a possibility? Any procedures for the back yard mechanic?

5.Verify CP3 pump output volume (see high pressure pump info). You can also cap off all the injectors and see how quickly the rail pressure climbs. It takes about 4000 PSI rail pressure in order to start.

I think I have good enough RP, but I may lead to this step.

6.Shorted fan clutch, unplug fan and try starting again, possible codes P0483 or P2509.

Not issue at this point, do not have these codes.

 

[TCDiesel]

Your last post (50%) only confirms why internet info is FUBAR.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Got my FCA from Genos , and hope to get it in soon. Not expecting it to solve my all the problems but there is a chance. After dealing with a diesel for a friend of mine not running right I bought a fuel filter to throw in to make sure it is not something really dumb. Friends vdub had 8K on a filter. After many parts, we tried it before pulling the trigger on injectors. Runs like a champ now.

What is the fuel filter interval? I have always done once a year cause I don't put big miles on the truck.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Too cold this weekend to work on anything, So this morning when it was -10f I decided to give it a shot at starting. WTS stayed on for a long time, cranked, stumbled, kept cranking and in about 4 seconds of cranking it fired without being plugged in? WTH?

At 25 degrees it won't start without being plugged in. Today at -10 it starts unassisted. I am thinking I am going to wait till it warms up to fiddle with this thing.

 

[sag2]

Just a theory here, but very cold fuel would be slightly thicker and would not leak past a worn injector or lose connector tube. Less leak = more rail pressure available to start.

 

[sag2]

Just went back and read all three pages. Here is a quick back yard test. If it cranks and does not start when cold, give it a shot of ether (might want to disable grid heaters first). If it fires up it most likely is a leak in the high pressure side (connector tubes) or injectors leaking internally. The reason it starts with the ether is the engine gets going a couple hundred RPM faster than just with the starter, so the pump can overcome the leaks and build enough rail pressure for everything to work correctly. Still do not like the fact that your rail pressure is fluctuating more than a couple hundred PSI at idle, but that might just be the sample rate of your scanner.

 

[rjones]

Not Hi jacking the post post My 03 doing exact same thing summer starts fine in winter after sitting more than 4 hours a shot of ether to get her running...... Im going to do a cap off test see if will disclose a bad injector also a flow test..... I have all the fittings needed to do both...... BTW, I already re-torqued the Cross tubes