03 Ram 6-Sp vs. 03 Chevy 6-Sp vs. 03 Ford 6-Sp

[amsoilman]

Well, Its about time Chev and Ford finally caught up to Dodge! Lets see, Dodge came out with the CTD in 89", and it took Ford till 97' to even come close to the CTD, Chev/GM just got here very recently!





Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

the cummins 8. 3 has more balls than that 7. 8. The 8. 3 is offered in variations of up to 1050 ft lbs. Id still go with a cummins. But Im glad that there is a medium duty duramax that is an inline six so that I can point it out to all these people who say a v8 is better.

I like tests like that. I dont think any of us bought these trucks to win drag races. But im glad to see the heavier dodge towing so well. I think i might wait a few years and get one of those common railers.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Jdecampo is right. numbers do not lie. I wonder why the dodge was running at such a horsepower deficit.

 

[Badunit]

When I look at the charts I don't see that the Chevy was catching up, it was, in fact, getting further behind. It looks like it had a spurt in the 430-860 ft section but, after that, the Dodge and Ford were both gaining speed much faster than the Chevy. It also looks like the Ford, after 860 ft, wasn't gaining speed as fast as the Dodge. It was going faster than both but was adding mph at about the same rate as the Chevy. It looks to me like the Dodge would have won on a longer hill (at about 2500 ft or so). Of course, the data points are limited so extrapolation of the data like I'm doing is suspect; the Ford may actually be the stronger of the two but it looks pretty clear that the Chevy is the weakest.

 

[jimnance]

Hill Climb

Finally got my fifth wheel hooked up and pulled a nearby grade that is very steep. It is a good benchmark, because I know how well my friends with Duramax and Bombed Ford do.



I am about 1500 lbs heavier than the two of them so I have a bit of a handicap.



The bombed Ford could climb the hill at 60+, but has to back out because of EGT's. Too much fuel I suspect from his Western Diesel fueling box.



The Duramax can pull the hill at 55 MPH.



I used to pull the hill at 45 MPH with my '99 which had an Edge. Bone stock my H. O. '03 pulled the hill at 53MPH.



Considering the heavier weight of my fifth wheel I'd have to say we are all pretty evenly matched in terms of power. It was really nice to pull the hill and hold a conversation at a normal volume. My '99 would kill brain cells when it was wound out on a long pull!



I noticed that to get the power from the H. O. you need to pull more RPM's than the Gen. 2 trucks.



The six speed was really nice as no matter what hill I climbed I could find a good gear. Had to pull the big hill in fourth as I didn't have quite enough for fifth. However, I pulled the hill a second time from an on ramp right at the bottom of the hill and was able to get all the way up through fourth to 53 MPH. It had plenty of reserve in fourth.



I can see where another 50 HP or so would see me doing the hill in fifth at close to 65 MPH.



Dodge has got a winner with the stock H. O. for towing. A fuel box would be just icing on the cake!

 

[rob10858]

"pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" trust me guys, the ctd is still the only engine that i would ever dream of using for towing. period. the guys in our co have all of the above, in the 2002 versions, and they all agree that the cummins is the best all around motor. by the way, let's see the cold start comparisons on a sub zero morning, then compare who is best... . if you can't get it going, you wont be towing...

 

[JoeyD]

badunit,

0-430ft GM was 1. 65 seconds behind

430-860ft GM was . 02 seconds behind

860-1290 GM was . 33 seconds behind

1290-1720 GM was . 64 seconds behind



Don't think I'm bashing the Dodge but if not for the 4. 10 gears it would have placed last. The GM is down by 5 hp and 35ftlbs but weighs less. The initial 1. 65 seconds back is hard to regain even with a more powerfull truck.

 

[WKener]

0-430ft GM was 1. 65 seconds behind

430-860ft GM was . 02 seconds behind

860-1290 GM was . 33 seconds behind

1290-1720 GM was . 64 seconds behind

I just want to clarify these figures...



-Notice these are not cumulative times. What this means is that after the first 430ft the DMax was 1. 65 seconds behind the Dodge.

-The second interval shows the DMax being only . 02 seconds behind the Dodge, but that does not mean it made up 1. 63 seconds, it means it is now 1. 67 seconds back. The net of that is through the second interval, the dodge again pulled away slightly.

-The third interval shows the Dmax at . 33 seconds back... Again, that does not mean it made up any time at all, in fact it lost another . 33 seconds (ie dodge pulling away), and being a total of 2. 00 seconds back at this point.

-The fourth and final interval shows the Dmax being . 64 seconds back. That's just another . 64 seconds of ground that is lost to the dodge, totalling it at 2. 64 seconds back.



What's more important than the times, are the speeds at which each truck covered each 430ft interval. Through the first 430ft the dodge averaged 2. 9mph faster than the chevy (pulling away hard). The second interval showed the dodge with a meager . 11mph advantage, meaning it was still pulling away, but not by much. The third set of numbers shows the dodge averaging 1. 56mph more than the chevy, again pulling away. The last interval showed the dodge increasing it's lead over the chevy at a rate of 2. 31mph on average.



So you see the DMax was gaining no ground at all, and was in fact falling further and further behind the longer the pull went on. So when exactly did the chevy make up any ground, am I missing something?? I am not interested in any kind of brand wars, I kinda like the DMax... I am just clarifying misinformation.

BTW, if the dodge had 3. 73's it would have been a closer contest, but then again if the dodge didn't weight 1000lbs more the 3. 73's might not even be an issue... Just something to consider. And all of this is somewhat irrelevant, because we are still looking at 2nd place (behind the ford, with 3. 73's).



Wes

 

[Badunit]

Yep, we're still behind the Ford. Maybe we'll shine on the 15% grade. The 4. 10 should really help get the Dodge moving on that test but, once it's rolling, the difference in rear end gearing should have little bearing on its performance relative to the others. All of them should be able to find the proper gear for whatever speed they're going. So, basically, I'm going to ignore the first distance interval and concentrate on the middle and end of the test.



The test against the Chevy dually is pretty fair, it is a 3500 dually against a 3500 dually and just about everything else (other than the rear end gearing) is as close to comparable as possible. The Chevy may be 975 lb lighter but that's just how it is, the trucks are outfitted equivalently. Just ignore the take-off part of the test to account for the difference in rear end gearing.



The test against the Ford F250 isn't quite as comparable. Part of the 750 lb difference between it and the Dodge would be eliminated if it was a F350 dually and not a F250. It also looks like a short bed, not a long bed. At least it's a crew cab and not a super cab; that added some weight. Having seen the small back seat area of their super cab, the crew cab is the more comparable of the two anyway (the crew cab is better, actually).



I guess you could also look at "comparable" from a tow and payload rating point of view. I don't know the capabilities of these other trucks so I can't compare them that way.



I think that, as far as magazine tests go, this one is about as fair as they get. If the manufacturers would provide the exact vehicles requested they could be more fair but these guys have to take what they get.

 

[JoeyD]

As far as vehicle weight you can't change it, it is what it is, but the gears would make a difference. The initial time lost is very hard to make up. The same race conducted with 2 indentical Rams with one having 4. 10 gears and the ther having 3. 73 gears which one would win?



Wkener, Your right about the times.

 

[Badunit]

While it can't make up the lost time, it should be able to accelerate just as quickly once it gets moving. That's what I am looking at. For instance, one truck may be adding 5 mph from one distance interval to the next while another may be only adding 4 mph



I'd expect the 4. 10 to win a short race and the 3. 73 to win a long race since the 4. 10 will top out at a lower speed (assuming they can get up to that speed). If they can't get up to top speed due to a heavy load or steep slope, it depends on which has the best overall gearing (gear + rear) for the speed they can reach. I don't know if that last point will come across, I can't quite find the words to say what I mean.

 

[WKener]

As far as vehicle weight you can't change it, it is what it is, but the gears would make a difference. The initial time lost is very hard to make up. The same race conducted with 2 indentical Rams with one having 4. 10 gears and the ther having 3. 73 gears which one would win?

I agree, the 4. 10's very helpful in getting that load moving quickly... But I would still be interested in seeing a comparison of that sort

The Chevy may be 975 lb lighter but that's just how it is, the trucks are outfitted equivalently

This is true.



I think this is one of the better tests I have seen lately...

 

[Davey]

I may be wrong, but any of the 4. 10 equipped trucks I have driven , seem to run out of gear too fast.

I would like to know what gear all of the trucks were in when they crossed the finish line, for the dodge probably had to make an extra shift thus slowing it down a bit. Just my theory, let me know what you guys think.

 

[Sky]

A thousand pounds is a thousand pounds. When I have 1000lbs in the bed of the truck or in my trailer I can really tell the difference when its gone. At the beginning they said "all trucks have a tank of fuel one passenger etc... ... . " for weight purposes but why not make them all the same weight for the tests. I understand that our trucks are heavier and thats how it is, but does everybody pull just 12,100lbs around for getting on the freeway etc... . no trailers are all different weights. So the tests should be conducted at the same weight. Why not get all the trucks with the same gears, axles etc. . Doesn't Dodge make the 3. 73's now? If there going to put all this effort and money in the tests why not make all the trucks the same as close as they can. I see a lot of these tests and there never done by just a independent no bias person. One day the Dodge wins then a month later its the Ford and then the GM gets its turn. Ok, I am done :{ now.

 

[Badunit]

I am under the impression that they get their test vehicles for free and, though they may request a specific configuration, they may not get exactly what they requested. So they work with what they get.



How the test is run depends on what they're trying to accomplish. They are trying to show how each truck pulls specific loads on various grades. So they use the same trailer weight for each truck. If, on the other hand, they were comparing just the engines & drivetrains and not complete trucks, having truck+trailer be the exact same weight would be the way to go as you suggested.

 

[Pit Bull]

I think it is obvious that they are all good vehicles. I would like to see a writer really do some research on these trucks and expose their underbellys. You know like the PSD cackle problem, or the CTD's lift pump problem, etc. etc. They can talk about what the manufactures have done to correct problems and what they have not done. What these problems mean to an owner and how are they addressed by the dealers. These comparison articles are just advertisement for the manufactures. fluff

 

[JoeyD]

PitBull, That would make a great article as all trucks have issues. To bad it won't happen hu

 

[krabman]

15% grade has been posted. Results are difficult for me to believe.

 

[Pit Bull]

Think they engineered the grunt out of the ISB in 03?

 

[kevinthompson]

I use my truck to help me make a living.

In a normal month I am home one week gone for two and home for the last week.

My month is not based on how fast I make it up that hill. Its what I acomplished that day or that trip. And how much did it cost?

Things that make a big differance in the profitablity in my business are, besides how many seconds it took to climb a peticular hill are.

How far I can get on a tank of fuel. ?

How much were my expenses at the end of the month?

Get me and my truck back in one piece.

The bottom line is profit. The truck that helps me make the most money is the truck I will be driving. All factors considered. From all the information I have heard DCD wins hands down.

I would switch in a heartbeat if I was convinced that another brand would make me more money.