Archived 04.5 cranks but won't start.

[DBabbitt]

Started my 04. 5 the other day and it died after running for a 9 or 10 seconds. Cranked it again and it ran for another 2-3 then died again. cranked one more time and it fired for about 1 sec. After that it cranks but won't run. It was pretty cold that night (about -10) so I thought maybe the fuel had gelled. I live in an apartment do I can't run a block heater. took my other car to work and picked up a fuel filter on the way home. Replaced the filter but still wont run. I'm a novice to this whole ctd thing so I'm struggling to figure this out. When I cycle the key I hear a repetitive clicking noise. Is that the lift pump? Cycled my ign. key and got code p0336 which is for the crank sensor. After doing some research on the net I found some sites saying that code can come up in error fairly often.

Consulted my owners manual. It just says to put the key in run for 30 sec or so to prime the fuel system. Is there no bleed screw or process?



Any Help =

 

[Msilbernagel]

Started my 04. 5 the other day and it died after running for a 9 or 10 seconds. Cranked it again and it ran for another 2-3 then died again. cranked one more time and it fired for about 1 sec. After that it cranks but won't run. It was pretty cold that night (about -10) [... ]

Any Help =

Well... as a side note if you could set up your signature we'd know what equipment you're running - it can help those attempting to answer, sometimes considerably.



Ahhhhh, at -10 and without some type of anti-gel additive, your guess is likely a good one, especially since I've seen two other posts in recent days describing the same thing as their fuel gelled.



Can't help you with the crank sensor code, suppose it could be old?



Anyhow, go get something strong to help the fuel you have (anti-gel) and do what you can to warm up the fuel system... open the hood to sun, get heat lamps under the truck, perhaps a hair drier? Got any friends with a garage you can tow it into and warm up? The stuff in the pump and lines isn't going to benefit from the anti-gel unless/until you can get things circulating.



At -10, they are probably already running on winter fuel in your area, but if you have room you might even try a few gallons of kerosene AS LONG AS you have a lubricity additive to protect your fuel pumps.



Mark

 

[nick05]

if you don't have access to a garage, throw a tarp over the truck and put a heater of somesort under it for a while. also fill out your sig so we know what you got.

 

[TowPro]

Powerservice 911, in the red bottle. I saw Walmart had it the other day. I think is says to dump some in the fuel filter and the rest in your tank. Just follow the Directions on the bottle

 

[DBabbitt]

The thing is when I pulled the old filter it was full of diesel - no gel! What is the clicking noise when I turn the key on? Is that the lift pump?

 

[CumminSense]

I have the same problem as DBabbitt, but was only 20 degrees F overnight. I had exactly the same symptoms. Changed fuel filter, no help. Then I filled the fuel filter cup (this was mid-day yesterday, had warmed to about 35 degrees) to the brim with fuel, tightened down the filter, and it started great -- but only ran about 1 minute. BTW, after changing the filter, and trying to start it several times, the filter cup was empty and the filter was still dry awhen I opened it up again.



I thought could be frozen water in fuel line, but it sat in the sun with no wind until 2 PM, when the temp was about 35 F, so frozen line seems unlikely to me.



Fuel pump?



21K miles on it. Also having trouble getting DC to tow it, called the 24-hour roadside assistance, they assigned a tow, but no one ever showed. Their automated call system was not too impressive. Will call again this morning for a tow... .



Any help much appreciated.

 

[DBabbitt]

CumminSense, if you cycle your ign key will your filter bowl fill up on it's own? Mine does but seems to be doing so slowly. So I'm thinbking now I just have air in the lines somewhere after the filter bowl.



Anyonw know if cranking it over trying push the air out for several minutes will hurt anything?



Do the newer trucks not have any type of bleeder screw or plunger for this?

 

[DBabbitt]

By the way, Does anyone have a diagram of the fuel system or know where one is on the net for the late model fuel systems? thnx.

 

[Trent]

Where are you?

 

[DBabbitt]

Trent, I'm in Littleton, Colorado

 

[CumminSense]

DBabbitt --



No, cycling the ign key did not fill the fuel filter bowl. After I changed the fuel filter yesterday, I tried starting it at least 4 times, each time letting the key sit in run for about 20 seconds and the heater light go off, then cranked it. No fire. When I opened the fuel filter case again, the filter medium was still dry -- I think this was plenty of time to have pumped fuel into the filter if things were working. I'm guessing pump or frozen line, but I doubt frozen since the low the past couple nights has only been about 18 F, plus it sat in the sun yesterday for 6 hours and temp got up to about 36 F, and still wouldn't start. I've never had water problems in fuel, and never get any detectable (just looking and smelling) water from the water separator valve/hose.



Tow finally came a few minutes ago -- driver had to pull my truck back and load it on the rollback front-first -- wouldn't fit rear-first (QC long bed). Dealership (warranty work) is supposed to look at it this afternoon, will let you know when I know something. Decent dealer, I think they'll do OK with it. HATED SEEING MY BABY ON THE BACK OF A CHEVY... .



-- Steve

 

[DBabbitt]

Got Her started today after pouring some Power Service Diesel Supplement in the tank. Let it sit overnight and cranked up on the 2nd try. I could not find anyone who carries PS 911 in the Denver area. Tried two Flying J's 3 T/a's a handfull of mom & pop truck stops, all of the local Autozones / Pep Boys / Checker and Wal Marts. Most of them carry the PS Diesel Supplement although many were out. So that's what I went with and it did the trick.



Thanks to all who helped

 

[TAllen]

cumminsense

What did your problem turn out to be? I'm in upstate NY, were it was -10 last night, and mine won't start. It started two or three times and ran for a min. or so, now it won't start at all. I put power service in the fuel tank, and put some in the filter houseing and filled it with fuel, nothing. I hate to call a dealer, but its not going to be warm here for a few days. All I can think of is that its something in the fuel lines. Anybody got any ideas? (and no warm garage to put it in)

 

[Idaho CTD]

The clicking noise is the grid heaters. You cant just put the key in the run position. You have to bump the starter to get the lift pump to pull/push fuel into the system. On the CR trucks they will prime themselves if you bump the starter and wait until the lift pump stops running (10 seconds or so. It's a grinding sound on the 03-04. 5's) 2 or 3 times and then crank the truck over. It will probably take 2 or 3 attempts to get it to start.

 

[CumminSense]

Tallen --



Dealership (under warranty) got in the warm shop, let it warm, and said it started OK. They let it idle a while and then road test, all OK. No repairs made. I added PS right away when I got it back, and will continue with additive for the winter. So dealer thought just a frozen line.



Idaho CTD --



Thanks for the bump start info, I had thought just "key in run" got the lift pump running. Anyway, many attempts to start when it wasn't running(cranking, say 5 seconds each time) should have been running the lift pump, so that adds to the evidence of frozen line (or frozen something)

 

[DBabbitt]

It seems like many people here on TDR are having the same gelling problem and most of them at temperatures warmer than they should be. Seems like they are all 03+ common rail CTD trucks. Looks like the gelling is occurring somewhere between the fuel filter bowl and the injector pump.



I have two neighbors who live in my apartment complex, park in the same parking lot & drive older pre- common rail CTD Dodges and none of them run any anti-gel additive. Mine was the only one that gelled up.



Could there be some kind of design flaw as far as gelling goes with the common rail CTD's?

 

[Idaho CTD]

I think more of the gelling has to do with the rail and injectors instead of the pump. I'm not totally convinced it's gelling as much as the viscosity of the fuel when cold. When it's thick the rail pressure goes up faster (just like your oil pressure on start up)but the volume into the motor is actually lower because it wont flow as well. The mechanical injection of the older motors inject the same amount of fuel at start up no matter what. With the newer trucks it works on the time the injector is open. If the fuel is too thick not enough fuel will get through the injector in the fixed time to start the motor and atomization is poor as well.

 

[DBabbitt]

Idaho CTD, That sounds like a pretty good explanation. That would probably also explain why my CR tends to have rough idle when it's cold, more so than the pre - CR trucks! thanks.

 

[TAllen]

Thanks guys for the help. I still haven't got my truck started. It warmed up to 18 today, but I had to help a friend get his excavator, bulldozer and truck started, that took half a day, then I worked with him the rest of the day. Tomorrow its going to be in the 30s, I'll try some heat between the filter and the pump and see what happens.

 

[ubcummins]

I just returned from new york with my 91 (dam cold for a fla boy!)and had lots of problems (hard starting,rubber fuel line froze then started sucking air,fuel gel and last but not least my fuel stop sillanoid took a crap! then cummins of harrisburg pa screwed me on repairs!