'04 GPS NAV CD Radio

[jzaremski]

LMAO. Alpine makes way better equipment under their name than something they'd sell to dodge/mopar,

Aftermarket equipment has more features, but in terms of quality the factory stuff has an edge.



Oh, and OEM equipment accounts for far more in sales than aftermarket...

Navigational Radio RBU" They may have made a mistake.

They did, because RBU is a CD/Cassette radio with a wireless headset transmitter.

The RB4 is a lower-priced version of the RB1 (Mopar P/N 82208481).

RB4 is a completely different unit, made by a completely different supplier.

I understand it may be made by alpine but wont be up to the same quality

Bull.

 

[TBrennan]

Hate to jump in on a :-{} contest, but here goes. When dealing with OEM equipment the manufacturers have a very constraining cost cap, this is not the case with aftermarket equipment.



If you look at the quality of Alpine's state of the art F1 system, there is no comparison to oem quality.



Now I'm sure that all manufacturers make their bottom of the line stuff that would be comparable, but I would expect almost all oem equipment to be right at the bottom of the manufacturers line as far as quality because of cost.

 

[jzaremski]

but I would expect almost all oem equipment to be right at the bottom of the manufacturers line as far as quality because of cost.

You'd b surprised. In terms of robustness, fault tolerance, and other tangible aspects, aftermarket products don't hold a candle to OEM. OEM products are put through far harsher validation testing than any aftermarket component.



If by "quality" you mean such dubiously useful features such as copper-plated chassis, Burr-Brown DACs, and the like, then I guess you have a point. However I'd file those aspects under "features", not "quality. "

If you look at the quality of Alpine's state of the art F1 system, there is no comparison to oem quality.

heh...

 

[TBrennan]

So what your saying is that when Alpine is contracted by DC they do all this extra engineering effort to design and meet DC's demanding specifications, and then turn around and sell DC the head units for some very low price (compared with aftermarket)?



They then promptly ditch all of this engineering wonder and build all new units based on a re-engineering effort to make ones that are less reliable and just add fancy features no one uses but they get consumers to buy anyway?



OEM radios are often seen as more robust simply because they are far simpler in design and offer fewer features that can end up breaking.



Take your oem Infinity speakers out of your door and note the pathetic cone material (paper) compared to a good set from Infinity that cost a few hundred.



Look at the specs for your THD and voltage from your oem radio compared to a system that puts out 4V pre outs and uses a dedicated amp.



Crank your oem unit up and listen to the pop and hiss!

 

[LightmanE300]

amen, 4v preouts baby. I dont care how robust factory radios are, I've had 5 alpine decks and never a problem. OEM sounds like crap. Theres no way alpine puts the highest technology of circuitry and components in the OEM unit, they would be the most basic possible. If they put the best in OEM units, they wouldn't sell aftermarket decks now would they?

 

[jzaremski]

So what your saying is that when Alpine is contracted by DC they do all this extra engineering effort to design and meet DC's demanding specifications, and then turn around and sell DC the head units for some very low price (compared with aftermarket)?

yep. Seriously. The margins on OEM head units are pretty slim compared to aftermarket. But, as the old saying goes, "make it up with volume. "

They then promptly ditch all of this engineering wonder and build all new units based on a re-engineering effort to make ones that are less reliable and just add fancy features no one uses but they get consumers to buy anyway?

No, there's some commonality of design, but you have to understand the different markets. OEM customers (and by this I mean DCX, Ford, et al) require a design life of 150,000 miles, with no degradation in performance due to dust, water/salt spray, extreme temperatures, etc. Also, they must not in any way give off or conduct EMI that can interfere with vehicle electronics.



Aftermarket customers look more for features (multiple pre-outs, high output power, etc. ). While aftermarket units do go through similar validation testing as OEM units. the standards aren't as strict. And because you can't control what vehicle the products go into, there's no way to do full EMC testing.

OEM radios are often seen as more robust simply because they are far simpler in design and offer fewer features that can end up breaking.

Heh... ever seen the EL display on an aftermarket stereo on a 10° morning? It's so dim you can barely see it, not to mention sluggish. That's why they've stuck with VFD displays. And do you think those fold-out in-dash LCD monitors you can but for $1000 would last 150,000 miles?

compared to a good set from Infinity that cost a few hundred.

Yet cost less than $15 to make.

Take your oem Infinity speakers out of your door and note the pathetic cone material (paper)

There's nothing wrong with paper cones! Matter of fact, a properly designed and treated paper/pulp cone is one of the better methods out there.

Look at the specs for your THD and voltage from your oem radio compared to a system that puts out 4V pre outs and uses a dedicated amp.

Oh, that's a fair comparison

Theres no way alpine puts the highest technology of circuitry and components in the OEM unit,

Then explain why the Philips 7709H DSP in the Chrysler factory head units is at least three times as powerful as the ones used in aftermarket head units. Explain why the OEM head units have 20 bands of infinitely variable parametric EQ (5 per channel) when the top-of-the-line aftermarket ones only have 5 bands total. Explain why the Motorola 563xx DSP used in Ford's premium head units have 30 bands of parametric EQ, with two AUX outputs for center channel and subwoofer, full time correction capability, and the capability to store three selectable FULL EQ sets. I don't think you'll find that in ANY aftermarket head unit.

 

[TBrennan]

While aftermarket units do go through similar validation testing as OEM units. the standards aren't as strict. And because you can't control what vehicle the products go into, there's no way to do full EMC testing.

I don't buy this without some proof. What standards? Why can't EMI testing be done on a stand alone piece of electronics and have it measured. I work in the Aerospace industry and we certainly test all components for EMI emissions stand alone before they go into an airframe.

Heh... ever seen the EL display on an aftermarket stereo on a 10° morning? It's so dim you can barely see it, not to mention sluggish. That's why they've stuck with VFD displays. And do you think those fold-out in-dash LCD monitors you can but for $1000 would last 150,000 miles?

Now this I find ammusing because my wife has had two explorers (a '96 and a '96) and both had their VFD displays stop working shortly after purchase. I had an Alpine 1000E (one of those fold-out in-dash LCD monitors) in my '96 dodge truck (which had an all spring lift making it ride more like 3500 and I live in the country on a dirt road) and it worked flawlessly. I just sold it on ebay about 1 month ago after taking it out of my '96 that I traded in.

Yet cost less than $15 to make.

Then the paper ones must cost about 0. 25 cents. Once you start putting any serious power to the paper ones they will blow out. They can't any amount of real power. If you think your oem paper cone speaker system sounds as good as it gets then you really need to get out more. Listen to some quality aftermarket installs at a competition for SQ and then talk about your "Premium sound system" from Dodge.



I've never seen an oem system with 20 band Para/EQ. Please provide a model number of this oem unit. I also couldn't find any info on a "Philips 7709H DSP" chip.



I can tell you that the "flagship" Alpine (flagship products are regarded by the MANUFACTURER to be the best product they make by the way) PXA-H900 Multimedia Manager employs four 100 MIPS LSIs. It features Adaptive EQ, a 31 band real time analyzer and a 175 band digital equalizer, amoung other things. It does real time noise cancellation and time correction.



I don't have the time or desire to delve into the DSP specifics you state but it just doesn't make ANY sense. Give me one reason any manufacturer who is always looking to "one up" their competitor wouldn't use these super secret DSP chips to beat their competition?



You are asking us to believe that they CAN make much better units than what they are selling in the aftermarket but they chose not to because the average consumer doesn't care about quality only features. There are many people who spends thousands of dollars on SQ oriented systems who only want the best SQ. Their are many companies that attempt to cater to their wants and needs. If they could make it better for almost no more engineering or other costs they certainly would, wouldn't YOU?



In short you are asking us to believe that a product that must be produced under a heavy cost constraint is better than one that has no constraint or at least one that is 10 times higher. Interesting, but I don't think I've ever heard of a product with that kind of buisness model.

 

[Brutus1]

Hey Guys;



Listen, I will not go for a GPS system until such time as Microsoft and DC comes out with an on-board computer that will share and store all engine info as well as GPS and all related GPS info in one unit. All this DVD Info and flipping DVD as to State and Country you are in is garbage, Why not just store all info onto a 20 Gig on-board computer and let it tell you what everything is doing.



Thats All!



Brutus1



2003/Dually/QCab/Lam/ HO Cummins Diesel / Six Speed/ Black

 

[LightmanE300]

Brutus, in the past Nav systems were cds that you had to switch. The dvd you don't have to. LOL

 

[jzaremski]

I don't buy this without some proof. What standards?

DCX's PF standards are confidential, so you'll just have to do without.

I work in the Aerospace industry and we certainly test all components for EMI emissions stand alone before they go into an airframe.

How about after? Full-vehicle EMC is part of the validation. Sure, component-level testing is important, but full-vehicle tests are the proof in the pudding, so to speak.

Now this I find ammusing because my wife has had two explorers (a '96 and a '96) and both had their VFD displays stop working shortly after purchase.

What does a manufacturing defect have to do with what I said?

Once you start putting any serious power to the paper ones they will blow out.

Which has F. A. to do with the cone material.

If you think your oem paper cone speaker system sounds as good as it gets then you really need to get out more.

I love it when people don't read. What I said was: "Matter of fact, a properly designed and treated paper/pulp cone is one of the better methods out there. " I did not say the $3 speakers the OEM use are as "good as it gets," so please quit with the strawman arguments.



BTW, the Alpine F#1 Status components (SPX-Z18T and Z15M) have "cross-cut wood fiber" cones- i. e. paper. And they manage to be excellent speakers.

Listen to some quality aftermarket installs at a competition for SQ and then talk about your "Premium sound system" from Dodge.

Another useless strawman. for the record, I detest the "Infinity" system in my Dakota.

I've never seen an oem system with 20 band Para/EQ.

I didn't say it was user accessible.

I also couldn't find any info on a "Philips 7709H DSP" chip.

7706, sorry.

I can tell you that the "flagship" Alpine (flagship products are regarded by the MANUFACTURER to be the best product they make by the way) PXA-H900 Multimedia Manager employs four 100 MIPS LSIs. It features Adaptive EQ, a 31 band real time analyzer and a 175 band digital equalizer, amoung other things. It does real time noise cancellation and time correction.

I know what it is and what it does, thank you.

You are asking us to believe that they CAN make much better units than what they are selling in the aftermarket but they chose not to because the average consumer doesn't care about quality only features.

I pointed out the specific cases where OEM units have an edge. You're going of on a tangent, putting words in my mouth.

In short you are asking us to believe that a product that must be produced under a heavy cost constraint is better

As I said before, it depends on how you define "better. " I've spoken as to what specific ways I see the OEM units as "better. "

There are many people who spends thousands of dollars on SQ oriented systems who only want the best SQ.

Yeah, and there are just as many if not more people who spend thousands of dollars on Bose equipment, and such quackery as Tice clocks and Mpingo discs- what's your point?

Interesting, but I don't think I've ever heard of a product with that kind of buisness model.

again, you're arguing with me based on your interpretation rather than what I actually said.

 

[Brutus1]

Lightman



I stand corrected! however I'm looking for somthing that will be in future somthing that will combine GPS with Cummins Road Relay.





Brutus1