05 injectors in 03

[BJMarshall]

I have access to a very low mileage 05. Odometer is less than 20k, but the build date on the truck is 6/05 and the build date on the engine is 11/05 and it is obvious it was replaced. The engine runs great and looks brand new. The truck is going back on the block in a couple of weeks and I can swap some parts in the meantime. Does anyone know the effects of running these injectors in an 03?

 

[jwilliams3]

They have different spray patterns.

You would have to swap your 03 tips onto them to work properly.

 

[BJMarshall]

But the injectors are identical other than the tips, right?

 

[jwilliams3]

Yes they are identical.

 

[BJMarshall]

Any suggestion on tips. Not really looking for horsepower increase, just would like for them to be new. Maybe a slight increase would be OK

 

[Tomeygun]

Any suggestion on tips. Not really looking for horsepower increase, just would like for them to be new. Maybe a slight increase would be OK

I really like my F1Diesel injectors. My injectors actually came out of an 05...

Don just put the correct 03 custom tips on

 

[BJMarshall]

I've got the 05 injectors in the 03 now. 05 tips and all. I don't plan on leaving it this way, but one of the 03 injectors messed up and I had to do something. I was going to swap the tips over, but a couple appeared to be damaged and the 05's looked perfect.

Here is what I have determined after the swap. The 05 seems to run fine with the 03 injectors. The stuck injector must've become unstuck during the swap. The 03 seems to run great. With the Smarty on 5, it is extremely strong. There's a lot of smoke at low rpm's, but egt's aren't bad. I'm going to get some tips quick, but though I'd report on how the injectors worked.

Hey Tomeygun, why don't you sell me those flux2's so you can get those hellfires you want.

 

[JDerbedrossian]

Keep us updated for the time being till you chage the tips. Curious on how it will do in the long run.



Jake

 

[Tomeygun]

Hey Tomeygun, why don't you sell me those flux2's so you can get those hellfires you want.

although temping, I need to stock pile a few more $$ before I do the next set of mods... .



Be careful with the 05 tips in an 03 motor, I have heard they will burn a piston up due to the fuel being sprayed outside the bowl...

 

[BJMarshall]

A quick update on how these are working. If you like a lot of smoke, they are fine. Even with the stock setting they will pour out black smoke. With the Smarty on 5, you can turn day into night. Brand new 03 tips will be here tomorrow. I would've bought some F1's, but just can't swing 1100 bucks right now. I was surprised by the price from the local Bosch dealer as compared to what some others wanted.

Tomeygun, are you sure about the outside the bowl thing? I and my Bosch dealer have both come to the conclusion that the 04. 5 and up injectors have a more concentrated pattern than the 03/04 nozzles do. If I had more time, I would like to experiment with different seal thicknesses and see if these could be used. I just don't have the time, and I don't enjoy removing and replacing injectors or rebuilding engines that much.

One other thing the Bosch guy told me was to be cautious of anyone advertising the ability to rebuild HPCR injectors in-house. He basically said it was impossible even for authorized Bosch dealers since all the necessary parts weren't available. I don't know how true that is, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[KLockliear]

That is correct BJM, 03-04 was 143* where 04. 5+ is 124*



Careful with tip gaskets, as moving those injectors up and down moves the inlet hole in relation to the crossover tube.



The parts are not available to rebuild, which is why the aftermarket guys either mod the stock tips or provide new ones, but don't rebuild/fix the stock bodies.

 

[Devan Manis]

what exactly fails in them?

 

[BJMarshall]

I don't know, but right now all people are doing is cleaning them and putting on new tips.

Keith, I didn't think about the crossover tubes. That could be a problem. Since you know the spray angle numbers, what do you think it would do to the pistons. I'm not going to leave it like this, I still just wonder what it will do. Do you know what the difference in size is between the 5 holes of the newer injector vs. the size of the 8 holes in the older one?

 

[KLockliear]

The comparative number is roughly the same between the 8 holes and 5 holes (with the 5 holes being larger). We will have our Jammer tips available in the next few weeks for the 03-04's, and then 8 hole 04. 5-06 sometime in December.



With the 124* spray angle shooting fuel into a bowl designed for 143*, I'd imagine that the fuel will start to etch into the piston top, as it's impacting the piston at a different time than designed. That's just a guess though, since we never tried it.

 

[daytripper63]

Nevermind I see why

 

[Tomeygun]

With the 124* spray angle shooting fuel into a bowl designed for 143*, I'd imagine that the fuel will start to etch into the piston top, as it's impacting the piston at a different time than designed. That's just a guess though, since we never tried it.

So the 05 is a tighter pattern, Could they be used with the right amount of timing from a fueling module?

 

[BJMarshall]

Thanks Keith.

The only reason I put the injectors in was because I had access to them for free. They hadl ess than 10k miles on them where the ones in the 03 had quite a 140k hard miles. I had recently rebuilt the engine in the 03 and "supposedly" had the injectors tested and they were "supposedly" fine. The truck started having some strange idle issues where it would rev up for no reason and then sometimes it would die. It also had some white smoke and it was hard to start.

While the 05 was there, I swapped the FCA, regulator, map sensor and the injectors. With these parts swapped, the problems went away. The 03 now starts and idles better than it ever has. I never really intended to leave it like this, I just needed to do something while the parts were available.

The weird thing is that the 05 cranks and idles fine too. I've only driven it around the yard, so I have no idea how it will work under a load.

 

[BJMarshall]

You're thinking like me, Tomeygun. With timing and maybe a slight adjustment with washers to get it just right, I wonder what they would do?

 

[KLockliear]

I don't think you could advance the fuel to the point where it would interface with the piston at the same point in the bowl as it would with less timing with the correct injectors, and not have ignition so far before TDC to cause problems.



Let's say that with the 143* angle, the injectors fire at 10*BTDC (Not sure where it really occurs, let's just use this as an example). With the 124* in the same bowl, you might have to fire them at 20*BTDC to achieve the same amount of fuel in the bowl. At 20*BTDC, there is too much fuel in too early, causing detonation and/or pre-ignition, etc.



Just thoughts... no tests to back this stuff up.

 

[BJMarshall]

Same here. Just a bunch of what ifs and thinking out loud. At least I have shown what not to do.

I just picked the new nozzles up @ lunch and may try to put them in tonight. If not tonight then it will have to be Friday as I intend to eat until I pass out or explode tomorrow and I know my fat butt won't be able to lean over and pull injectors whilst I am stuffed.