05 Lift Pump Problems

[JHedman]

Driving down the road yesterday my truck basically died. Ignition system is fine, starter turns, etc. etc. Seemed to me like the injectors simply quit opening. What a pain! 20K and it dies on me. Dealer says that the lift pump in the fuel tank went bad. I'll know more when I visit next week. Just FYI.

 

[Coolslice]

I was wondering if the LP being moved into the tank would actually make a difference. Your post is not good news.

 

[TSpecht]

Keep us posted for sure, because that is somewhat un-nerving. I'd have thought an in-tank pump would last significantly longer. Is there any possibility it may have been a fuel quality issue or some such thing? Hopefully it's just an isolated factory defect on that one particular unit, and isn't the start of a bigger problem. On a positive note at least there hasn't been much talk from more people about failed in tank pumps, although I bet many haven't been around long enough to have such issues.

 

[2Gen3Gen]

This was one of the few reasons I chose a 04. 5 and not a 05. . Basically the same truck, but no lift pump in the tank. I just didn't want the first year of that idea. I know what a PITA it can be to remove a tank!

Best of luck!

 

[rbattelle]

I really gotta think this must be an isolated case. I mean, imagine a company that straps totally unreliable lift pumps onto their trucks for 5. 5 years (98. 5-03) and reaps nothing but complaints from disgruntled owners. So they decide "hey, look at those guys at the TDR, they're just average Joe's and many of them have installed very high quality, inexpensive, reliable repalcements for our problematic lift pumps. We're a multi-billion dollar company with a huge engineering staff... we can do even better! Fire all the nerds and hire some new ones!". So they redesign the lift pump. People the world over cheer! Oh boy!



Unfortunetly, the redesigned one is not much more reliable than the old one (Krabman, you were right)! Imagine that... all that brainpower and all that money and effort for almost no gain.



So they once again sack all the nerds and hire new ones. They throw the redesigned pump away (after only 1. 5 years) and retrofit the entire fleet of trucks with in-tank pumps (redesigned-redesigned pumps). Surely, they must have gotten it right this time. No?



If Dodge built fuel pumps for aircraft I wouldn't ever fly. Anywhere. Ever.



Seriously, I hope this is just an isolated case.



-Ryan

 

[67guzzler]

Ryan -- I could be wrong but I think the lift pumps are made by 3rd party vendors like Bosch, Carter, etc... .

 

[rbattelle]

Ryan -- I could be wrong but I think the lift pumps are made by 3rd party vendors like Bosch, Carter, etc... .

You're right. The 2nd and 3rd gen stock pumps are made by Carter (not sure about the in-tank pump). But I don't care - it's Dodge's responsibility to properly spec the pumps. I say, they weren't spec'd right and quality control was insufficient. But you're right, I shouldn't have blamed Dodge for poor engineering in my last post.



It's interesting in light of DCs new supplier strategy (bring suppliers in early, promote competition, carry out inspections, grade them on the job they're doing, fire anyone not passing). Perhaps lift pump issues on these trucks are one reason they've decided to adopt such a strict new policy.



-Ryan

 

[coobie]

I really gotta think this must be an isolated case. I mean, imagine a company that straps totally unreliable lift pumps onto their trucks for 5. 5 years (98. 5-03) and reaps nothing but complaints from disgruntled owners. So they decide "hey, look at those guys at the TDR, they're just average Joe's and many of them have installed very high quality, inexpensive, reliable repalcements for our problematic lift pumps. We're a multi-billion dollar company with a huge engineering staff... we can do even better! Fire all the nerds and hire some new ones!". So they redesign the lift pump. People the world over cheer! Oh boy!



Unfortunetly, the redesigned one is not much more reliable than the old one (Krabman, you were right)! Imagine that... all that brainpower and all that money and effort for almost no gain.



So they once again sack all the nerds and hire new ones. They throw the redesigned pump away (after only 1. 5 years) and retrofit the entire fleet of trucks with in-tank pumps (redesigned-redesigned pumps). Surely, they must have gotten it right this time. No?



If Dodge built fuel pumps for aircraft I wouldn't ever fly. Anywhere. Ever.



Seriously, I hope this is just an isolated case.



-Ryan

Ryan,I think you will see this will not be a isolated case. I know from talking to my local dealer,and a few folks who work at the crysler proving grounds located here in Chelsea Michigan,this will be a on going problem with the in tank fuel fuel pumps,that is why I ended up going with the Fass system. coobie.

 

[radar doctor]

Ryan,, This sounds like the Black Decker and Dewalt Deal I read about tonight... . Then I turn around and Read about the FASS... Deal??? What's Goin On?? I'm not Flyin Either unless you checked the Engines???? DOC

 

[PHarris]

I have 10 offroad diesel macks and internationals all with various engines cummins, mack detroit, cat never saw one with a intank fuel pump. I have a 2005 and i am bummed because i have changed v-10 intank fuel pump and it sucks big time. Dodge is making our trucks more complicated and not getting better life. I have a 97 1 ton in my fleet with 600,000 miles by employees abused its whole live and still running strong.

 

[JHedman]

Sorry about the bad news guys. Hopefully an isolated incident. Called the dealer today and they said that the cp pump was bad also. I won't know for sure until week after next when I get back into town and actually talk to the tech and see the diagnostics. What a pain. From what I know the cp won't suck fuel from the tank like the old vp would so I'm kind of curious to see wether or not the cp is actually bad. This makes me think twice about the F. A. S. S. system irregardless of the price. . To be continued... ... .

 

[CMullen]

Too Bad recall is a four letter word, but

I guess they'd have to be able to fix it before they could be successful recalling it :-laf

 

[6 2 Carl]

I will admit that I haven't heard any problems with the in tank fuel pumps yet. We should see how they hold up to the upcoming Alberta winter, now that there are a quite few trucks on the road. Almost everyone I talk to that works in the patch has had fuel pump problems with the old style pump.



It was a nightmare up here last winter, guys were waiting for weeks for a fuel pump to come in, causing thousands of dollars of lost income. I was lucky because my dealer was willing to give me an extra pump to carry around. He ordered one for me, but the sad thing is that by the time my pump actually came in I needed it.



In my mind the fuel pump issue is just as bad as blown engine, if it takes weeks to fix it. It is a serious problem that leaves you stranded if little or no warning.



It is really sad that a simple thing like a fuel pump can bring the whole truck down to the level of Powerstroke, in terms of reliability.

 

[ROGER/DODGER]

I just put one of the conversions from Dodge, the in tank rig and got rid of the lift pump on the side of the engine in my 2001 truck.

The pressure is not my idea of enough for the truck, 7 lbs going down the road at a steady 65 mph pulling my travel trailer. Ten lbs. at idle, I could almost pee this much.

 

[Ncostello]

HEY DODGE!!!!!! Get the #2 liquid from the tank to the injection pump. Do you consider it an engineering marvel? Is it going to require a joint venture from Boeing and Lockheed-Martin??



Why don't you just turn the "challenge" over to Mercedes Benz. Perhaps the engineers there can devise a scheme to do the job. Perhaps if Benz diesel engineers get involved... . then maybe Cummins would feel the need to include a pump with their engines that can suck fuel.



I couldn't imagine an in-tank pump. These electric pumps seem worthless whether they are on the engine, in the tank, or on the rear bumper.



Having dealt with lift pump problems on a 2nd gen till I was about ready to admit myself to a mental ward... I can only ask Dodge and Cummins these simple questions if they are listening at all.



What was so wrong about a mechanical lift pump on the side of the engine? Was it too simple? Too reliable? Were the electrical engineers so bored that you had to give them this task? Weren't they busy enough converting the fuel injection system over to electronic controls? Didn't they have enough to do with all the wiring harnesses now found on new trucks? Why did you have to let them handle the job of pumping fuel with a toy car motor? Or did you let mechanical engineers fool around with electric motors? (Nothing against engineers... I happen to have a BS in engineering... so I feel it fair to rant about peers).



Please... just drop the electric fuel pump idea and install something that is known to work. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel.



Were going into our 8th year of electric fuel pump failures. Please stop the madness. How much more of this must Dodge/Cummins owners endure? 10 years? 20 years? Where will it end? We don't want to talk about lift pump problems here anymore. Are we gonna still be talking about electric lift pumps in the 4th Gen Engine-Transmission Forums? Help!!



I now have a 91. 5 1st Gen D250. I haven't even thought about a lift pump for a year. Its nice.



(I'm done ranting now. I never wanted to talk about lift pumps again either I couldn't resist)

 

[rbattelle]

Good rant, Ncostello. But Dodge is obviously not listening or they would've fixed the issue 7 years ago.



-Ryan

 

[RJOL]

... The pressure is not my idea of enough for the truck, 7 lbs going down the road at a steady 65 mph pulling my travel trailer. Ten lbs. at idle, I could almost pee this much.

Remember that the CP3 Injector pump is totally different then the VP44's. The lift pump (in the tank), for the CP3 is just there to "prime" the CP3. In the VP44 the lift pump not only "primed" the pump, but also was used for lubrication and pressure. Once the fuel gets to the CP3, it has its own internal pump. It takes very little pressure to "prime" the CP3.



We will just have to see what happens with the new "in tank" pumps, but the good thing about this is that if it fails, and the CP3 loses prime, the engine will just die. With the VP44 you stand a good chance of destroying the pump when the pressure was very low. Now if you've "chipped" your 2005 and need a lot more fuel to the CP3... all bets are off... JMHO...

 

[Mhannink]

why do they even need a lift pump the duracrap uses the same cp3 ip and its just fine and the ford powerstroke if they do have a lift pump then all the 94. 5 and newer psd trucks that my dad and my uncle run have never had fuel problems from a lift pump or ip then u have the old mechanical ones that never had problems anyways just my thoughts on this

 

[jcroman]

Well 18 posts and no one else is reporting a failure. I think its to early to hang the jury on this one. However I did the vent mod to my tank and was very surprised how cheesy the whole pump and plastic mechanism actually is. The motor looked like it was outa a cordless drill and the fuel tubes were plastic flex and looked like a crazy straw!!!!! Time will tell... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .

 

[CPittman]

We just had to do the conversion to the in-tank pump on my truck (88K miles). The engine stumbled during mild acceleration and then just quit at a traffic light. Fortunately it was right around the corner from the dealer. Code P0623 or somesuch. $100 deductable.