06 48RE Pacbrake engagement problems

[td182b]

I had to get the transmission rebuilt in my 06 3500, put in the Triple Disk TC, Billeted, with a shift kit. Now the Pacbrake doesn't want to engage in 3rd or 2cd gear. I have to punch the throttle a couple of times, then it'll engage. Any Ideas?? Seems to be getting worse.

 

[SnoKing]

Appears in 2006 they moved the APPS under the dash to the throttle pedal. Make sure that the pedal is returning all the way to the idle position. Details seem to indicate that the pedal and APPS are replaced as a single unit. Have you cleaned the Pacbrake control valve or talked to them about the butterfly shaft sticking and needing cleaning. I believe they have a cleaning solution.

I could not find a calibration write up for the 2006. Chris

 

[cerberusiam]

The CR engine APPS recalibrate every time the system is energized so APPS issues are much fewer. EB engagement is usually wiring or sticky valves on the EB.

 

[ScottLewis]

Servicing the Pac valve is pretty simple. I did a brief write up showing how a few months ago. Try cleaning the valve first anyway but since the problem developed after the transmission work, I'd suspect a wiring issue.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?246023-PacBrake-solenoid-air-valve-service

 

[td182b]

I thank you very much for the opinions, but I don't believe it's the activation valve as the brake works extremely well whenever I take my foot off the throttle when in high gear. Never fails. I'm wondering if it could be something to do with the Shift Kit? I didn't do the transmission myself, but it was a good, trustworthy transmission place. I believe they did a very good job. I paid the local Dodge dealer to reflash the ECM, hoping it was a computer issue. It didn't help, but I also don't have great faith in them even doing the reflash. I didn't actually SEE them do it, and I don't have a great deal of faith in them.
Could a Shift Kit interfere with the programing in some way? I'm thinking of contacting PacBrake to pick their brains. FWIW, I've had the brake on since new, now have 150,000 kms, and love it. The truck has a history of pulling heavy trailers in mountains, and it's still on it's first set of brake pads.

 

[SnoKing]

Maybe it is coming on in lower gears, but the torque converter is not locked up???? Does it sound like it is on, but you just do not slow down? If so then it is back to the transmission shift kit guy! If you are on the brake in OD and push the button to lockout OD what happens?

Found this on another site: Tow/Haul Operation on the 48RE
The 48RE also includes a “Tow-Haul” button on the shift lever. This feature locks out overdrive and locks the torque converter clutch. If you engage Tow-Haul at speeds above 50 mph, the transmission will shift or stay in third gear and the converter will lock. If you shift the transmission manually to second gear when you slow down to below 50 mph, the transmission will shift down to second gear with locked torque converter.

http://www.dieselbombers.com/dodge-diesel-tech-articles/31978-all-about-48re.html

Chris

 

[Prairie Dog]

If it's really not coming on, I would check to make sure a "low" signal (negative voltage or ground) is at the wire coming off the ECM for the PB. Use a meter to measure voltage or test light and hook the other end up to a +12V source to check this signal.
If it's not going low then the problem is probably with your truck. To further test, remove the PB's relay and make the test again. If it's still not low then it's definatley on the truck side. If it does go low then it's the relay.

Scott

 

[td182b]

I pulled the relays, put some dielectric grease on them. I'm starting to think it may be the converter not locking up. Is there a scan tool out there I could buy to check not only what gear it's in, but when the converter it locked?

 

[SnoKing]

Wiring up a lockup switch/push button is the best way to test for lockup! A search will find the details on how to do that. Chris

 

[td182b]

I'd agree with that, I'd prefer to have the 6 speed and have everything really simple, but an extra kid fixed that. If it was only me driving the truck, I could have an 'on/off' switch for the converter lockup, but it has to be something anyone can jump in and drive.
It would be nice if I could use a scan tool of some sort to tell if it's locked up or not when the PB won't kick in, then I'd know if the problem is traced back to the shift kit. I understood a 'shift kit' was just different springs etc in the valve body. How could that affect the the engine/trans computer? Would there possibly be a sensor giving grief? I also put it into 'Tow/Haul' mode to see if that would help, nope.

 

[td182b]

Anyone have any thoughts on this...?

http://ktperformance.net/i-6684221-ats-copilot-lockup-controller-dodge-2006-5-9l-cummins-48re.html

 

[SnoKing]

First you have to know if you have a 2006 or 2006.5 model truck, as there are two different controllers for 2006 trucks. Were you happy with how the exhaust brake worked before the rebuild?

What does the transmission guy say about the problem you are having? Have you had him drive it. His trained ear and eyes on the tach should be able to know if it is locking up correctly. If a smart controller is now required, which one does he recommend? By 2006 Dodge was suppose to have the code in place to make the EB function correctly with their PCM/ECM.

This appears to be a transmission problem and you just had the transmission worked on. I believe it takes someone with a Dodge DRB scan tool to watch the transmission functions. You could pay an hours shop time to have a Dodge tech go for a ride with the DRB connected. 20-30 minutes to install a temporary push button lockup to test with is a very common way that people without other tools use to trouble such problems. My transmission guy even suggested I do that when I was having a unlock issue with my DTT smart controller. Slowly bring it up to cruise speed and note how many shift/lockup (RPM changes) you note.

But again, what does your trustworthy transmission guy say?

Chris

 

[td182b]

The truck was built in 05/2006, which by my research, puts it in the 2006.5 category.
I did take the transmission guy for a drive with his test tool immediately after the rebuild, I hadn't done any research of my own at the time and he didn't pick anything up. I don't think his tool told him when the convertor locked up, just what gear it was in.

I'm going to wire in a switch to lock it up manually, talk to the transmission guy again and go from there. Lot's of very interesting and good info on here on how to put in the switch. If it was just me driving it, I'd just leave it as a manual switch and save the $600. When I had it rebuilt, I put in the Billeted Triple Disk, but he recommended against the Billeted Input Shaft, saying it was only for engines with chips. After reading on here, it seems if I put in the switch, the trans shifts with the clutch locked up. Pretty harsh.

 

[cerberusiam]

If you have the EB wired back thru the factory wiring to activate the EB and you have updated the TC to a lower stall that will throw off the engagement. The ECU is completely responsible for putting a signal on that wire that the EB picks up, if the ECU decides it doesn't want to acivate it based on APPS, wheel speed, and engine load, no signal. In order to get it to activate correctly you may have to have a 0 APPS reading for certain time period to get it to come on. One of the totally annoying things about using the facotry system is it has NO idea what you have done to the transmission to make it better, it STILL thinks it has the saem sloppy stocker in there and behaves accordingly.

Your trans really did you no facvors with a triple disk and no billet input shaft. Bad mistake on these later model trucks becasue of the shift\lock algorithms they have. That may come back to haunt you.

The ECU has no way of telling a shift kit has been put in. It does not monitor or read any of the pressures chnaged by a shift kit. It also has no way of knowing you have a more efficient TC or if the TC clutch is locked. All the ECU can do is set gov pressure and read it. A good shift kit will not materially affect the gov pressure. If it does, not telling the differences that can show up. The ECU cannot tell of the TC clutch is locked, all it can do is tell the solenoid to activate.

The facotry tools, and some others, can read the PIDS for demanded gov pressure, actual gov pressure, and lockup demand. None of them can tell if those functions happened correctly, only what it gets for feedback based on other parameters like wheel speed, APPS, and a calculated engine load. You can track these to see if there is an issue with them but it would take a tech VERY familiar with the software to say that this particular reading is going to effect the ECU demanding EB activation, that is almost an engineering question.

Short answer is once you build the trans like that you might just as well expect to use eithe rmanual control or a spearate controller for the EB as the factory controls WILL have some discrpencies.

 

[td182b]

r
cerberusiam, thanks for your opinion. I believe you are correct. I do wish I'd put in the Billet Input Shaft, to late now. I've sent a message to ATS asking if the Copilot Controller releases the TC before shifts. If so; I'm thinking thats my best option.

 

[SnoKing]

I have the first DTT smart controller that is suppose to unlock while shifting!!!! Well I could not tell the difference! It still seems to shift lock to lock. I put in the billet input and billet direct drum. Bill said the output shaft was easy to change. I recently broke the milled down(for extra steel and plate) direct drum pressure plate, and rebuilt it again after 10 years and only 85k miles. I now have a half a$sed DTT transmission. I also have a billet triple disc TC. When it locks you know it. Well actually it is the second triple disc, the first one had to high of a stall speed and they had to redo it. Chris

 

[cerberusiam]

Unless you modify the VB to a certain spec the you won't be able to use the lockup feature of the Co-Pilot on shifts. By design in the stock VB lockup vents the gov pressure to TV pressure and depending on throttle postion that will stack shift it into the highest gear available. To be able to automate the downshifting with lockup and the EB engaged the controller needs to manage OD and the TTVA motor to get it hold and drop to 2nd gear. What it does if you manually select the gear am not sure, should work fine then.

 

[SnoKing]

Anyone have any thoughts on this...?

http://ktperformance.net/i-6684221-ats-copilot-lockup-controller-dodge-2006-5-9l-cummins-48re.html

ATS CoPilot Lockup Controller, Dodge (2006.5-07) 5.9L Cummins, 48RE
(0) Reviews: Write first review
Description: For Dodge truck production date 05/2006 & later, with new style tail lights. The ATS CoPilot provides you the ultimate in push-button control over when the torque converter locks up in your...More Details »
Item #: 6019002317
Condition: New

http://ktperformance.net/i-6684222-...roller-dodge-2006-5-07-5-9l-cummins-48re.html

 

[td182b]

Thanks for all the responses. After talking to the Transmission Re-builder and ATS, I'm thinking I'm going to leave well enough alone until I can find the time and the inclination to get ATS to send up one of their complete builds and swap this transmission out. I'm not confident the local builder really has any idea of how the shift kit works, and how the pacbrake is supposed to work. He wants me to leave the truck in there for a couple of day's while they try to figure it out. As it's now off the rebuild warranty, I'll likely have to pay for this, and maybe not get it working anyway. I didn't expect to get the rebuild done there, I took it in originally to just get a good flush and they found the brass spirals and here I am.
Thanks again for the help.

 

[SnoKing]

Why ATS, they were never very highly thought of on here and other sites? Call Goerend Transmission 563-778-2719 and see what they say. You may just need a valve body that is correctly setup for an exhaust brake! You stated you had a trusted transmission guy work on in and now you are going to throw it out and start over with a purple one??? Chris