'06 Duramax,360HP,650TQ, 6-sp Allison!!!

[KBennett]

Well this thread isn't really about injectors but I will add my personal opinion. I think the bathtub curve could be applied to the injector failure rate. It seems that those that have had them replaced experienced a failure early on and so the rest of us that made it passed the initial break-in period should see a long life of good service.

I spoke with one of my customer's recently about his 2001 Dodge CTD with over 200K (mostly trailering) on it and asked him about any pump problems. He said that he had not had a single problem! Reading here you would think that the 24v's were unreliable due to the pump issues. Could it be that he maintains his truck well and adds an additive (I can't remember the brand) to his fuel every 4 fillups?



Ryan I think your filter idea is a good one. Looking at the fuel as the cause of injector problems is probably a good idea and I have started to add a little Power Service to every tank. B20 biodiesel may be a good thing but I have not concluded my research on it yet.

 

[FATCAT]

Back to the topic at hand ... looks like GM will be the King of the Hill for the next year or two. What could "reasonably" be expected from Dodge in the '06/'07 offerings.

Could they match the 360hp/650tq stock? Or would this require the rumored larger Cummins 6. 7L?

I would think for your auto transmission guys, Dodge now MUST come up with a 5 speed that can handle700+ lb ft.

 

[Hohn]

Nissan???? Maybe you should have put Toyota on there instead. Nissan is crap. BOTTOM LINE> The Honda and Toyota motors from the 70's & 80's where great. Put them on the map as far as economy and durability.

My '97 Maxima has been perfectly trouble free for 130K miles and 7 years. You were saying?

 

[Devan Manis]

700ftlbs

Back to the topic at hand ... looks like GM will be the King of the Hill for the next year or two. What could "reasonably" be expected from Dodge in the '06/'07 offerings.

Could they match the 360hp/650tq stock? Or would this require the rumored larger Cummins 6. 7L?

I would think for your auto transmission guys, Dodge now MUST come up with a 5 speed that can handle700+ lb ft.

At MM 05 i can't remember the guys name from cummins (i'm probably gonna get punched for not remembering) gave a seminar about the 05 engine and the changes made when they went to the 610 rating and he said that they would have just gone straight to 700 ftlbs but dodge wouldn't let them. So they could match the torque im unsure if he said anythig about the hp but im sure it could be done.

 

[Dieselnut59]

The best diesels in the world come from countries with quality control: USA, Japan and Germany. I still like the fact that Cummins is the ONLY engine manufacturer that is ONLY and engine maker. Isuzu makes great engines in the inline 6 form and so does International. Leave it to GM and Ford to say "we want your engine, but we want a V-8... " (Just so we can say "We have a V-8") The Isuzu 4-cylinders and good engines for what they are used for and all the Japanese (Nissan, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Yanmar, Kubota) and German (Mercedes, Hatz, Deutz, etc) engines are great, but a V-8 and diesel don't mix as far as strength and reliability are concerned. Inline engines have larger rods, cranks, bearings and longer stroke, all of which are important for a diesel engine.

 

[wicked6]

So what's wrong with Japan products? Ever hear of Honda? Nissan? and a bunch more that have much higher quality than america made products. GM build the duramax, however initially it was a joint venture with Isuzu, who incidently builds very good diesel motors. I haven't seen any big wide spread problems with Duramaxes, and mine runs great. Go to the diesel page and educate yourself before you make unsupported stupid comments.

I believe jopowell was expressing an opinion. We should try to inform folks, not blast them - pls. keep the attacks off the threads. :-{}



That being said - it's pretty obvious that the Japanese have outpaced American build quality since the 70's & really accelerated in the 80's through today. This is a fact many hard core "Americans" cannot grasp due to a superiority complex. A flawed view, for sure!



The Japanese auto industry adopted an American philosophy in the late 60's called SPC - Statistical Process Control. It was originally developed by Bell labs in the 20's, I think. . Anyway, they ran with it, incorporating JIT (Just in Time) practices as well. Culturally, Japanese are loyal, hard workers - you combine all of these factors & you have a manufacturing powerhouse. We shouldn't be surprised, but some of "us" are pis5ed.



Back to the Duramax - in SEMA '98, some friends and I were able to see the Isuzu diesel & talk with the development engineers from GM. Even then they knew it had more capability than any off the shelf transmission could handle. If we do see a 650 ft-lb Isuzumax, it means Allison is finally addressing the weak links in it's design. More power to the Chebbie boys who are still scratching their heads over how a modified Cummins (and transmission!) can hand their a55es to them any day of the week!

 

[FATCAT]

OK, now for the next question ... what would it take for Dodge to "step up" in the engine/drivetrain compitition? What would it take for them to drop the ISB and go with the ISC? This would allow them more room to increase hp/tq numbers in the following years. The ISC is emissions tested, not too much bigger than the the ISB, and would offer a greater array of transmissions/axle configurations.

Wouldn't this make sense?



What could be the theoretical expansion capibilities of the ISC? Up to what levels in hp/tq in a stock configuration?

 

[todt061458]

why does G. M. just get rid of the 100 series trans and put in a allison 200 series transmission? would that not solve all their problems?

 

[Flat_Lick_Dodge]

I read that too. . It adds another OD gear. . something on the order of a . 65 ratio. . Unless they do some beefing of the internals, it will still be defueled in 1st and 5th, and now 6th. . If it can't handle 600lbs/ft, the allison isn't going to like 650lb/ft much better. :-laf

I just traded an 02 duramax for an 05 3500 drw dodge cummins and My duramax would suck this cummins up on power and fuel mileage. I made some creature comfort sacrifices to get the "Cummins" cause it was supposed to be the best "on mileage, on power, on torque, on longevity, etc. , but I havent been impressed so far and wish I had my duramax back. I am waiting for the 10 mile breakin before I trade it to another duramax. I might just be an isolated incident, but I drove that duramax in the mat every day, day in day out, empty, loaded didnt matter. It pulled better got better mpgs and never turned a screw on it except service. However my brother in law got one same month I did and has had nightmares and he babied it. I chipped mine the day I got it. I had the chip before delivery of the truck.



I am going to wait and see if the cummins perks up at 10k. These are just my real world experiences and MY Thoughts. I have big shoulders so lets hear it.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I just traded an 02 duramax for an 05 3500 drw dodge cummins and My duramax would suck this cummins up on power and fuel mileage. I made some creature comfort sacrifices to get the "Cummins" cause it was supposed to be the best "on mileage, on power, on torque, on longevity, etc. , but I havent been impressed so far and wish I had my duramax back. I am waiting for the 10 mile breakin before I trade it to another duramax. I might just be an isolated incident, but I drove that duramax in the mat every day, day in day out, empty, loaded didnt matter. It pulled better got better mpgs and never turned a screw on it except service. However my brother in law got one same month I did and has had nightmares and he babied it. I chipped mine the day I got it. I had the chip before delivery of the truck.



I am going to wait and see if the cummins perks up at 10k. These are just my real world experiences and MY Thoughts. I have big shoulders so lets hear it.

All I can say is beware. They are having overheating issues since the cooled egr was added on the Dmax. Injectors are still failing.



I too switched from a Dmax to my current Dodge. For me it was a bold move as i was a staunch GM supporter.



I get better mileage than the Dmax. The Dmax seemed a little quicker but I attribute that to the Allison. You would have to upgrade the transmission either way for higher hp.



I didn't buy my truck to drag race. You can buy a Dmax "Bic Lighter" and yes have the advantage to a degree. They are nice trucks but they aren't what I expected them to be way back when they first annouced the DMax/Allison package. Injector worries, Allison that limps over 90hp, and now overheating issues. Ford... . forget it. All I'm saying is for sanity's sake i don't think you can go wrong with the Cummins. The Dmax to me is big bucks repair if you ever have to foot the bill. Cummins ain't cheap either but it's simple and there are tons of knowledgable people.



Flat Lick if you bought based on advertising rethoric (Best this and Best that) than shame on you. They all claim the same. Buy what you like. You were happy with the Dmax before so you are guaranteed, right?



The trade will set you back thousands. You are either loaded or you must really hate the Dodge.

 

[rbattelle]

I just traded an 02 duramax for an 05 3500 drw dodge cummins and My duramax would suck this cummins up on power and fuel mileage.

What is the weight difference between these 2 trucks? According to their respective manufacturers, the base curb weights are:



2005 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 DRW LWB QC: 7141 lb



2002 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 DRW 4-door 4x4 Allison Duramax: 6546 lb (I assumed you had the largest, heaviest Silverado money can buy)



My source for this data is www.edmunds.com and www.dodge.com.



Now, with no accessories at all the Dodge is 500 lb heavier than the chevy. Once it's full of fuel and has your accessories on it, I'd wager it's 1000 lb heavier than the Chevy. I know my 3500 QC SWB SRW truck weighs OVER 7500 lb with a full tank of fuel and a driver in the cab (the only significant weight addition I have is a headache rack that weighs around 75 lb).



So how exactly are you able to accurately compare the power and fuel economy of these vehicles?



-Ryan

 

[silkey]

i agree with flat lick dodge,i have had the same results. the difference i could tell was the dodge will pull better on launch up to 55 mph. from there the duramax will walk away from it. i have a large inclosed trailer that the duramax would pull to speeds that would scare you. the dodge wont pull the same load up the same hills at 70 mph. in fact i cant even maintain 70 up small hills. i think the 3rd injection event and the cat has killed the stock cummins.

 

[KBennett]

I looked at the Duramax when making my decision and went with the Dodge for several reasons.

1. Price

2. Height, without a lift kit the Duramax would not make it where I needed to go.

3. Engine compartment, how are you supposed to work on anything?

4. Looks, what were they thinking?



I have one of the early 3rd gens without the cat and it is not a dually. I average around 17 but I have seen 21 on the highway if I stay under 70.



My stock truck will outpull a Duramax off the line or on the highway so unless the chip technology is different I don't understand your complaint. Like Ryan said 500 pounds is pretty significant.

I wish you the best with your Dodge and hope the mileage improves.

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

Per the service manual, the duramax is not defueled, this is a common misconception amongst many. We've proved it on the dyno too. It does defuel on 4 low however, for good reason.

If these are not being defueled in 1st..... why the heck cant I burn tires during a test drive???? One of the reasons I wont even consider a duramax... besides the injector problem that still hasnt been cured yet.



Only D-max I've been able to burn tires on was a co-workers... and he had a completely rewritten ECM on that... . (not chipped... ).



I can burn tires easily with the Fords and Dodges stock... but never the GMs. go figure.

 

[jnelson]

The '01 Dodge I had with an auto (upgraded at 80,000 to DTT) went to 433,000 without a rebuild. That was with a TC and VB only. Cost $2,200



Injectors (stage 1) and Comp Box - $1,200 (labor included)



Total with gauges approximate $3750. 00



Truck was a fully loaded SLT Laramie I paid around $34,300 for. Total with upgrades would be $38,050. 00



The same truck in a Duramax was a solid $44,000. 00



Do the math. I had a hot Dodge CTD I drove oil field hot shot with for 433,000 miles.

If I had bought the Dmax I would have spent $6,000. 00 more for the truck, had less performance, and I seriously doubt I could have got 433,000 miles out of (when I sold the truck it ran great).



Keep your PSD (had one) and keep your Dmax's (dont want one).



I know which truck is best. I drive it.

 

[Flat_Lick_Dodge]

If these are not being defueled in 1st..... why the heck cant I burn tires during a test drive???? One of the reasons I wont even consider a duramax... besides the injector problem that still hasnt been cured yet.



Only D-max I've been able to burn tires on was a co-workers... and he had a completely rewritten ECM on that... . (not chipped... ).



I can burn tires easily with the Fords and Dodges stock... but never the GMs. go figure.

Well I dont know what truck you drove, but If I hadnt replaced the 245 tires with 285 I wouldnt have been able to pull out with out spinning. I had a bully dog dyno dominator and a 4 inch exhaust and ran it wide open all the time. It would WHITE SMOKE (REALLY) tires through first, second, and still spinning in third though not white smoking in third. It was one of the fastest vehicles I have ever been in from 0 to 90 that you could drive on the street every day and get 18 mpg. I have an 8000 lb tractor I pulled up a really steep slow pull hill and the duramax would kill the dodge on that hill, However the dodge pulling the same exact load would pull harder in a higher gear as long as the rpms are up. I cant figure that one out. Shouldnt an inline with practically the same displacement out pull on the bottom end better than top.



BTW I took the crazy larry completely off the dodge and now have mpg's upward toward 3. 5 mpg better.

 

[silkey]

i think you would like the tst box. from what i have seen,you can just advance the timing or if set high enough blow the turbo or trans right off the truck. the only limit the box has is you.

 

[hasselbach]

Like You Hoot said, the 05's are having big cooling problems. My brother just got a 05 duraheater dually, and it runs well over 200 not towing, and 240+ towing a 3000 lbs trailer. My 03 duracooler can't even break 205 towing over 11000 lbs in the mohave desert while 117 outside. Go figure. Its consuming the diesel place forum lly now. There are 100's of 04 and 05 owners trying to figure it out.

 

[Flat_Lick_Dodge]

Simple. ... . More Power, more stress, more heat. My 2 cents

 

[hasselbach]

Simple. ... . More Power, more stress, more heat. My 2 cents

really? more power, more heat? so are you saying that because his truck makes 30 more hp than mine that's the reason?



Then why does my 03 duracool truck with a 150hp box run way cooler than his 05 duraheater? Even turned all the way up towing, I have yet to go over 208...



Sorry, but your too general on that statement, it doesn't work. The real problem appears to be minimum airflow through the recently redesigned front end, based on some tests that are being run, which is causing the fan to come on just about all the time.