06 engine in an 03

[TCDiesel]

The HO ECM may have a problem bi-directional with the PCM that was installed in the 03 ATs, is it MT or AT?

 

[DE Jeeper]

I would assume it is the 250hp though due to it being located on the east coast. I know it is a SO, and from what I understand my HO ecm will raise the hp level to the 305 mark correct?

Mine was built early Oct. '02 and its an HO. Don't assume it's not an HO just because it is an East Coast truck.



Aaron

 

[cerberusiam]

The HO ECM may have a problem bi-directional with the PCM that was installed in the 03 ATs, is it MT or AT?

He is using his original ECU, you about have to or the VIN mismatch will cause problems unless its reflashed.

Mine was built early Oct. '02 and its an HO. Don't assume it's not an HO just because it is an East Coast truck.



Aaron

According the info he posted earlier its a VIN 6 which is supposed to be SO. C in the 8th position of the VIN would be an HO, is that what yours says?



IIRC, the HO engine was not available in the first part of 03 as the engine production had not completely switched to gallery cooled pistons and j-jets to handle the power uprate. When the HO became available all the engines then had the upgraded piston cooling system.



Since DEJeeper has an early Oct build HO its a pretty good bet any Oct build is the same. You would have to take it apart to verify but it sounds like the engine your looking at is just fine.

 

[JLewis]

My truck is a MT nv5600. This should'nt matter though, should it? I am going to be using my ecm off the side of my HO engine. I'm going to try and call cummins or Sheids today and find out more about this engine and build date. I just spoke with someone at Sheids and he said the only difference between the early 03 HO and SO were the injectors. So does this mean I should change the injectors from my 03 HO to the SO I am purchasing? Does what he said make sense to you guys? Seems to me if this is the case that with my HO ecm and the injectors from my HO and I would be at the 305 mark. Or should I just leave the SO as it is and hook it up to my ecm and to the Smarty, then buy some bigger sticks down the road? Also, will my current Smarty S-06 work on the 10/20/02 SO engine? Thanks for all your help guys!

 

[cerberusiam]

The only issue I could think of would be the pilot bearing not fitting correctly on an auto truck. Considering most of the B engines were mated to manuals it would be unusual if there was a differnece from the factory.



AFAIK, there is no difference between SO and HO injectors, the power difference was all in the programming of the ECU. You should have no problems if the injectors from the new engine are good. I have no knowledge that they wer any different in the tip area, bodies on the other hand may be different numbers but should still work.



It should make no difference between MT\AT becuase you will use all the electrical from your truck. The only thing you will be putting in is engine only with no sensors or wiring. The ECU cannot tell if the engine is different or any thing else about it, no feedback loop from the engine.

 

[JLewis]

Thanks for all your help cerberusiam. So do you think the ecu from my engine will raise the hp/tq? The ecu is the same thing as the ecm, correct? It's located on the lower side of the block? Also at the time of installation I will be putting a 2nd gen exhaust manifold, a he351 turbo, and a pac brake on. Is there anything I should check or change out on the replacement engine before installation, (oil pump, water pump, etc)? O rshould I just do what I have planned so far and just drop it in? Thanks

 

[cerberusiam]

Hang on, I think I found the info on the differences. Digging thru the archived copies of the TDR mag to pull it out.



Tentatively, it looks like the 03-04 SO motors were never upgraded to the j-jets and gallery cooling. Its not a big deal but want to make sure you have all the info to make a decision.



According to issue 47 page 47 the 03-04 SO engines still used the k-jets to spray the underside of the piston and rods, the HO's and 04. 5 and newer use the j-jets in the block and gallery cooling. The HO manifolds were supposed to handle more heat also and used slightly different gaskets.



All in all, the SO engine is still a solid unit that is almost indestructible. I would not worry too much unless you are towing heavy and/or wanting to race it. The SO's make good power, efficeincy, and life expectancy. Smarty will equalize the differences between SO and HO but you don't need it as your HO ECU should work fine.



I have not found anything about injector differences but thats 5-6 year old memories and info so it may out there and just a foot note.

 

[JLewis]

Thanks again, so is there anything I should do/check on the SO engine before installing? I do tow around 10,000 lbs alot, but never much more than that. Also the max hp I would ever be trying to achieve would be around 600hp tops. So with that in mind the SO should still be fine? Also why are the j-jets better than the k-jets? Thanks

 

[cerberusiam]

Will a 12V or 24V make 600 HP and live? Sure, if you do it correctly and pay attention to temps. The 10k is not too much nor is the 600 HP in my book. You won't be able to 1300-1400 degrees with impunity like the newer engines will but you can build and engine that will perform really well and keep your EGT's at or under 1200 degrees. It may just take some more fine tuning.



Its not so much the switch from k-jets to j-jets that was any better but the piston design and galler cooling that helped. The piston crown is the critical piece to keep cool so the design was little different when your spraying the bottom of the piston with oil to transfer the heat out of the piston. The newer style with j-jets actually has gallerys that run thru the bottom of the piston crown that the oil is injected into to dissipate the heat.



Its a more efficient design/functionality that allows higher heat and temps wihtout problems, mostly for the emissions they had to meet. Keeping this in mind, I see no reason why it should not serve your needs quite well. The caveat is ANY of these engines can be melted with too much fuel, too much throttle, etc, at just the right time in the right conditions. There is no silver bullet for all the possible problems.



Given the info I have now I would just what you are suggesting and feel pretty confident it would work for me. Thats my opinion.

 

[JLewis]

Thanks, so is there anything I should check or replace on the engine before installing?

 

[cerberusiam]

Head gasket? Front\rear main seal? Cam? Coolant bypass so it doesn't blow the freeze plug out of the back of the head?



Any of them will be a lot easier setting on the floor or cradle than in the truck. Depends on what you think would be needed for what you want to use it for and the power level you want.



Maybe wait until you get the engine and see if there are any signs of leaking?



Why don't you start another thread and title it "What to do with engine on the floor" and see what suggestions people have.