08 F-450 Pickup/D-4500 CC...Thoughts?

[Beast2B]

I would think the 4500 with a 26K GCWR would be adequate for 90% of us, but the 5500 oughta cater to the industrial crowd as well as those of us with (or looking for) heavy RV's and toy haulers!

 

[JRS]

Why no MegaCab? I write letters, Ask Dr. Z, multiple times. I wait for a true six-man cab, and DC delivers the MegaCab and a tiny bed. Then, I wait for the 4500/5500, and DC delivers the frame lengths but not the MC.



I remember a line from Lee Iaccoca's first book. It went something like this,"Chevy is like Baskin-Robbins, they can offer 31 flavors. Chrysler can only offer vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry". Looks like that MegaCab with and 8 foot bed is turning out to be a Rocky Road. (pun intended)



But I haven't given up on DC, just yet. "I'll continue to monitor the market situation".

 

[NIsaacs]

By keeping GCWR at 26,000 lbs, it avoids some licensing difficulties.



Rusty[/QUOTE]



I agree to some extent, however I don't think that is the reason for the low gcw's. Jeeze, even the 3500 cab/chassis has the 26,000 lbs gcw rating. Chevy, Ford and now Dodge have the makings of an awesome midrange truck if they wouldn't have quit in midstream with the light duty 3/4 ton, class two transmissions





"NICK"

 

[Posm]

I don't think that the transmission is the cause for concern. No one knows whether it will be good or bad yet. I work with farm equipment dealers. Many of them are currently switching from one ton trucks to class four and class five trucks. The one thing that they do not want is a GCWR over 26K because of licencing requirements. It is hard enough to find good help in small business without adding the requirement of a CDL. I would guess that there will be more business customers choose the Dodge because the door sticker says 26K than there will be recreation customers that buy a Ford because of the higher GCWR. Dodge is making a calculated decision to rate the truck for 26K. I would rate the 4500 for 26 K and put the 5500 where ever it falls out. The recreation market does not realize the hoops that come with a 26001+ GCWR. The RV crowd can pull a 45 foot fiver with a 1/2 ton and they are not subject to the laws. By the letter of the law, if an employee drives over 100 miles from home or crosses a state line, he is required to carry a log book, a health card, yada yada yada no matter what they are driving.



LEPage

You worry about getting pulled over and having your door sticker checked. I may be wrong, but I think that as long as you have your truck licenced to carry your GCWR you can carry as mush as you want. I have read that Canada does give consideration to the door sticker. Your legal liability and your warranty may be a different story.



Bryan

 

[NIsaacs]

Bryan, the licensing requirement is concerned with gvw not gcw. At 14,000 lbs and 19,500 lbs the Dodge 4500/5500 both fall under the 26,000 lb rating. The gcw is not on the door and is a manufacture/owner limit. If I buy a 33,000 lb gcw rated Ford, I can license it for less or if I buy a 26,000 lb gcw rated Dodge, I can license it for more.





"NICK"

 

[RustyJC]

Bryan, the licensing requirement is concerned with gvw not gcw.

With all respect, the Texas Transportation Code states:

SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES



§ 521. 081. CLASS A LICENSE.



A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:



(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or



(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.



Acts 1995, 74th Leg. , ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.





§ 521. 082. CLASS B LICENSE.



(a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:



(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;



(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:



(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or



(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and



(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.



(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502. 162, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.



Acts 1995, 74th Leg. , ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.





§ 521. 083. CLASS C LICENSE.



A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:



(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521. 081 or 521. 082; and



(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.



Acts 1995, 74th Leg. , ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.





§ 521. 084. CLASS M LICENSE.



A Class M driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate a motorcycle or moped.



Acts 1995, 74th Leg. , ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.





§ 521. 085. TYPE OF VEHICLE AUTHORIZED. Unless prohibited by Chapter 522, the license holder may operate any vehicle of the type for which that class of license is issued and any lesser type of vehicle other than a motorcycle or moped.



Acts 1995, 74th Leg. , ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Rusty

 

[Posm]

Nick

I just did some checking and looked a several states. You are kind of right in AZ. If you put a van body or roll back on the trcuck you can get away with no CDL. But if you tow a trailer over 10K rating (most tandem axle trailers) or go over 26001 with combined GCWR ratings of your truck and trailer, you are back to a CDL. Who wants to get a 5500 only to be able to pull a single axle awn mower trailer



http://www.azdot.gov/mvd/faqs/scripts/faqs.asp?section=cdl



Most states use only the GCWR. The feds are pushing to make all states follow their suggested guidelines. They are threating to withhold highway funds if they do not. Air brakes and trailers with a rating over 10K are also a triggering factor.



I agree that you can get a licence for any wight you want to pay for. You could put a 40K licence on a 1/2 ton. There are specific axle limitations that I can not quote though. In AL the standard pick up license is for 8K. I see lots of construction and lawn cutters getting over weight tickets for not putting the proper tag on their trucks.



Bryan

 

[RustyJC]

Nick

I just did some checking and looked a several states. You are kind of right in AZ. If you put a van body or roll back on the trcuck you can get away with no CDL. But if you tow a trailer over 10K rating (most tandem axle trailers) or go over 26001 with combined GCWR ratings of your truck and trailer, you are back to a CDL.

In Texas, unless other factors require a CDL, a GCWR of 26,001 or greater towing a trailer with a GVWR >10,000 requires a non-CDL Class A license - see my post above. With a GCWR of 26,000 lbs, I can tow my 16,000 lb GVWR 5th wheel with a 4500 using my Class CM license.



Rusty

 

[NIsaacs]

Sorry, my comments are related to the truck license requirements, not drivers license. I can see where some customers will benefit from the higher GVW of the 4500/5500 where all they need/use is the truck with the longer wheelbases and longer beds, no trailer. However when it comes to GCW, it seems kinda lame that the 3500 CC will tow the same weight as the 5500. I still think the main reason for the limit, is transmission related.







"NICK"

 

[JJuday]

Well DC finally did it and some are still not satisfied. What gives? 33GCVW to me is just a fantasy at best, a ficticious number if you will, espically with an F-450. Nobody mentioned that the 33k rating was given to a 2wh. drive F-550 single cab, regular bed with the lowest factory gearing.

 

[Wiredawg]

JJuday:



It is a good thing DC is offering 4500/5500 models, but they are targeting the commercial market, not the RV towing market. Sure, we can buy the derated Cummins, spend a few thousand more to try to get a pickup bed to fit it or buy a tow body, and a few more $$ getting more ponies/tq out of it. There is a point where many of us would like to buy a truck equipped well with great power,and maybe only add a 5th wheel hitch, some side steps and a grill guard.



Ford is doing the market research and their F450 p/u is exactly what RV haulers and ranchers want. DC could make big $$ if they would offer the same type of pkg.



I may mosey over to the Dodge dealer to see if anyone has had a dually bed modified to fit the 4500 yet and how much. I'll shout back if I find anything



Wiredawg

 

[Dieselnut59]

In his initial post, Wiredawg made an excellent point:





There's a significant market out here among those of us who tow heavy RVs as well as the horsey set towing the triple slants with living quarters and tack rooms. Ford seems to have recognized that and produced a product to serve those markets. Dodge hasn't - yet... .



Rusty

Why cant yall just be HAPPY, take a REAL truck and put on a REAL bed to pull your trailer? Pickup beds are JUNK, across the board! They are flimsy, dent if you lean on them wrong and do NOTHING to justify what even a 2500 series truck is capable of hauling! I am VERY glad that Dodge has finally "listened" and is offering us a truck with some REAL GVW capacity. In 2003 I did not have a choice. I had to buy a truck with the flimsy a55 bed and just recently got tired of that POS with beer can thickness steel and PLASTIC fenders and put on a REAL bed that is capable of handling what the REST OF THE TRUCK is designed to do! THANK GOD Dodge has finally let us have a great powertrain and chassis where we can skip their cheesie bed and add something capale of what the rest of the truck is able to do!

If you want a "pickup" get a 1500 or 2500 with the cheesie little 6' bed. If you want a truck capable of doing what the rest of the powertrain (with the Cummins) is capable of, skip the flimsy bed, get a cab/chassis and add a nice flatbed, service body or aftermarket bed and get what pay for in a real truck!

 

[Dieselnut59]

By the way, if anyone wants a "dually bed" off my 3500, make me an offer. It is dented in the floor and tailgate and the cheesie left plastic fender is cracked. I had to buy the truck with this POS installed in '03. Recently installed a REAL, made of STEEL flatbed on it and the plastic/sheet metal pos is in my way. If any of yall want to casterate the hauling potential of your 4500 with this cheesie bed, here is your chance! I just wish I had the choice to delete the worthless thing in '03!

Thank GOD for 3500, 4500 and 5500 cab and CHASSIS (only!)!! It's about friggin time!!!

Now, when will we finally see a Dodge/Cummins AMBULANCE! I would hate to know my life depended on the unreliable furd 6. 00000000h if I ever need an ambulance!

 

[RustyJC]

I don't believe everyone wants a pickup bed; neither do I believe that everyone wants a flatbed. Ford offers a choice - a C&C or a pickup bed. It doesn't have to be one way or the other - if you want a C&C, that's fine. If I want a pickup bed on mine, why should it matter to you? All I'd like to see is for Dodge to provide the prospective buyer with a choice.



Rusty

 

[Dieselnut59]

Well DC finally did it and some are still not satisfied. What gives? 33GCVW to me is just a fantasy at best, a ficticious number if you will, espically with an F-450. Nobody mentioned that the 33k rating was given to a 2wh. drive F-550 single cab, regular bed with the lowest factory gearing.

Some people are just NEVER satisfied! At least we finally have a great STARTING POINT! We have never had that yet: Cummins, great brakes, factory exhaust brake, standard straight frame rails and the ability to leave off a cheesie plastic/sheet metal bed (and the added cost) to add something capable af handling what the rest of the truck is capable of handling! Some people will NEVER be satisfied!

If you want a pickup bed, ADD it, but at least now people who do not want to pay for a pickup bed (then just remove the cheesie POS) can get the cab/chassis without a bed and add one of their choice, wheather it be a flatbed, a utility body, rollback or a "pickup" bed.

 

[Dieselnut59]

I don't believe everyone wants a pickup bed; neither do I believe that everyone wants a flatbed. Ford offers a choice - a C&C or a pickup bed. It doesn't have to be one way or the other - if you want a C&C, that's fine. If I want a pickup bed on mine, why should it matter to you? All I'd like to see is for Dodge to provide the prospective buyer with a choice.



Rusty

Ford is also going bankrupt because of TOO MANY "choices". Offer the consumer a basic truck that they can add to (cab/chassis) and stay away from being the bed supplier. The aftermarket will take it from there, especially since the frame is now the "standard" width and configuration. (although our company has never had a problem getting beds configured to the previous "pickup bed limited" chassis)

 

[RustyJC]

With all respect, allow me to make this as clear as I know how. When you pay for my truck, then you can tell me what I want. OK?



Rusty

 

[EMD-Run8]

Maybe its just because I live in Florida (it is a big horse state though), but I don't see very many (darn few, in fact) 450s or 550s with pickup beds. Stock beds are way too light duty for serious haul work. I can see where folks would like the way they look but... ... . I also wouldn't read too much into the weight ratings on either truck. Manufacturers can play around with that a fair bit. I dare say that the Aisin auto will take a fair bit more heat than the Torqshift too. As for the Superduty 6. 4s..... I ain't buying any truck that requires removal of the cab for certain engine repairs. That's just inexcuseable in a truck. No way.

 

[Russknh]

I realize some people have to pick apart any new or addition to the market but lets get real here a moment. I work the crap out of my trucks and last year had both a F350 towboss Ford C/C 4 X4 and a 550 with air suspension and 488 gears. The 550 with 488's is rated to gcwr 33k and the towboss with 430 gears was rated to pull gross combined 26k. I have some very heavy trailers and have to come out of San Diego and go down into the desert very often. I have pulled 30k out of town a ton of times and went down the 8 % grade with all of these trucks, I now have a 3500 C/C 4X4 Chevy dually with the 360 HP Duramax and a 3500 SRW Dodge with the 6 speed manual and I can tell you pulling heavy both the Chevy and the Dodge will smoke the Fords with equal loads. I have a PXRB on the Chevy with the allison and the factory exhaust brake on the Dodge and after several trips got rid of both the Fords. I know these trucks look good on paper but Dodge came right into the market with a truck that has BIGGER brakes and an exhaust brake dont let all this Ford BS fool you till you see what they will do for WOrKING fuel mileage and stopping power my Dodge will give consistantly 3-4 more miles per gallon and with the exhaust brake I fell real good getting to the bottom of the hill with cool brakes-I cant tell you how many times I hit the bottom with the 550 with the brakes hot praying the tow haul would do more!!!

 

[Dieselnut59]

... yep, you can have a 4500 Dodge with a true commercial engine, equipped with a factory exhaust brake and bought as a cab/chassis... . or you can have a 6. 4 450 furd equipped with a cheesie pickup bed and a removable cab. Seems like a small price to pay if you want a cheesie bed uncapable of hauling what the truck is capable of hauling! Furd is waiting on you! If their reputation remains, we will probably be passing your F450 with pickup bed on the side of the road (or hopefully see it going down the road on the back of a new 4500/5500 cab/chassis Dodge!)

I will still stand by what I have said previously: I am GLAD Dodge is finally offering a truck WITHOUT a bed and that is truely READY for aftermarket beds to be installed. I had to BUY my flatbed and have it installed on my trucks (after having to pay for the cheesie pickup bed that was included although I did not WANT it!). If you WANT a pickup bed (for whatever crazy reason) on a truck capable of hauling WAY more than a pickup bed can withstand, buy the cab/chassis and INSTALL the bed. That is exactly what flatbed, rollback bed, utility body bed, cargo box, etc customers have been doing with the other brand's trucks. Thank you Dodge for offering a truck WITHOUT a bed and allowing us to put our own on finally!