10% reduction in HP / MPG with BD?

[DZLROKET]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Read that in the So Cal Biodiesel users group news letter today..... With my truck that would be a loss of 30. 25 HP!!

 

[SHobbs]

Not sure on the exact numbers but, I have read there is at least a 10% reduction in overall power by running B100. I have pulled my 5er while running B100 and was very surprised, if there is a power loss I certainly didn't feel it. Everything I have read indicates that any percentage of bio up to 20% has very little effect on performance and does not change the characteristics of #2 that much. The added benefit of more lubricity and cetane is definitely a plus.

 

[JoeBioDiesel]

They are mostly wrong. What they are referring to is the fact that Biodiesel has a lower heat content than Petroleum Diesel. Nearly 10% less, but they are ignoring the fact that Biodiesel is less elastic at injection pressures, and has a higher viscosity, all of which increases injection efficiency. Check the actual dyno test results and you'll see decreases in the low-mid single digits. Now, add the fact that Biodiesel creates less soot, up to 70% less soot when running B100, and running Biodiesel can actually give you more power when running at the smoke limit. I find my best mileage and power when running a blend of petrol and Bio.

Now the bad news. The increases in injection efficiency won't happen with common rail engines, which I see you own. Sorry.

Joe

 

[SHobbs]

I ran a tank of #2, the new ULSD the other day by itself and I won't do it again. Mileage was terrible, I get better on B20 and B100. It's warming up here and the time to switch back to B100 is getting closer thank goodness. I normaly run B20 during the winter months and B100 in the summer. A slight gelling issue in Nov. with B100 taught me a lesson.

 

[mhenon]

Never ran B100 in the Dodge but I have in the Jetta several times. Mileage was down both times although the engine ran fine. With B10 there is no measurable difference.

Mike

 

[MHagen]

I run B100 almost all the time and I have no MPG increases or decreases. It runs far smoother and quieter on Bio. Reason enough for me.



Mike

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I run B100 almost all the time and I have no MPG increases or decreases. It runs far smoother and quieter on Bio. Reason enough for me.



Mike

You are lucky , Mike



Me:

B20 = 20. 07 MPG



B100 = 18. 02 MPG



BIG hit

 

[tgordon]

Diesel Power magazine did a comparison on a dyno with a truck and they found it was little if any differance. I don't have the magazine, my brother has it otherwise I would give you the exact numbers.



HEMI, are your comparisons under the exact same conditions? When I see numbers that are differing from what I have seen I like to know more about them.



Troy

 

[MHagen]

I wonder if it has to do with the quality of the fuel. MN has has high standards as 2% of all our diesel has bio in it.



Mike

 

[poor]

oh yea

Costing at around $. 65 a gallon-we can afford to lose some power and mileage!

 

[MHagen]

Costing at around $. 65 a gallon-we can afford to lose some power and mileage!

You must be talking about WVO. B99 is closer to $2. 69

 

[BSMiller]

Poor,
how can you make b100 for $. 65/gal in Glendale Az?
In Glendale Ca the cost of 20% meth/gal is $. 79 not counting the KOH.
The total cost runs about $. 90-$1. 00/gal depending on titration,water
and electricity.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

HEMI, are your comparisons under the exact same conditions? When I see numbers that are differing from what I have seen I like to know more about them.



Troy

Troy,



They were about a month apart. illflem from the DTR said he expected to see a bigger drop in MGP than that. Bill knows Biodiesel too.



I dunno.

 

[CanadianCarGuy]

I can get 20mpg with #2 and 17mpg with b100. I lost a bit of mileage with the DTT billet race transmission. I do notice the responsiveness throttle feel of #2 is gone with biodiesel, but the top end charge seems to pick up. It definately feels like a noticeable loss of power with b100 over #2, but I will have to do some test runs with my G-tech pro to come up with some real numbers. Diesel Power magazine dyno tests didn't quite seem right to me from my experience with both biodiesel that I bought, and my homebrew biodiesel.

 

[SteveAnsley]

CCG - your 'responsiveness throttle feel' is a good analogy IMO.

Top end seems strong, but response and build-up seem slow - hmmm... maybe a reason to finally change the fuel plate.



Homebrew pricing: My last drum of methanol was $125. 00 for 55 gallons; my oil is very good and titrates @ 1. 5-1. 7; this puts my cost @ ~ . 61 p/gallon.

As earlier mentioned, water and electricity is not factored in.



By the way - I'm sure most here are aware of the web based bio-diesel calculators, but I also have a stand alone excel spreadsheet someone on a forum came up with; here's a link where you can save the excel spreedsheet.

http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/recipecalculator/biodiesel-o-matic.xls

 

[Cattletrkr]

I get the same mileage running B80 as I do running winter blend. #2 and B20 are identical. I have one neighbor whoruns OTR bigrig and he told me a lot of OTR guys love it and seem to get their best overall mileage somewheres around B10. Dad's grain semi would agree. He also got a very noticeable power increase with the B10. He can now shift into high almost 1/4 mile sooner than before. Ya really can't feel it, but when you realize you're already in high gear it makes you take notice.

I've never been able to tell any power difference in my '04. 5.

 

[CanadianCarGuy]

Yeah, between b5 and b10 seems to jump up the mileage and power for me too, the top end charge seems very strong with b10 even though it might take some of the burp away from taking off!

 

[MHagen]

I just completed a test with 2 tanks of fuel. One tank was B60-80ish and the second was #2. I had the smarty on SW1 for both and both were on my regular routine of mostly city driving with a lot of starting and shutting the truck off. The bio tank was 18. 5 and the #2 tank was 18. 7. Hardly a difference at all.



Mike

 

[Short Stack]

I did the dyno @ MAy MAddess on B100 I did not see a reduction, my numbers were acually up alittle from my last dyno, and pulling my 5er my milage was pretty much the same.

 

[CanadianCarGuy]

I just did some quarter mile runs with my G-tech Pro, and found a huge difference between #2 only and b50!



All runs were done with OD on and 4WD

I made 1 run with #2 only with comp box on level 3



14. 57 @ 95. 2 MPH

The EGT's got too high for me to do another run with the comp box on 3!



I made 4 runs with b50 with comp box on level 3



15. 30 @ 88. 5 MPH

15. 24 @ 90. 6 MPH

15. 33 @ 88. 6 MPH

15. 31 @ 89. 1 MPH

Slightly cooler EGT's with biodiesel for some reason.



All 4 runs were made with various boost levels from 4 to 20 psi during launch

This is with my homebrew biodiesel, so it is nothing near ASTM standards, but the truck feels similar with ASTM bio I tried in Vancouver, Canada.



I am not knocking biodiesel or anything, but I definately think there is less energy content in biodiesel then petroleum based biodiesel. My truck has very high miles on it, so that might play a part in the large difference power difference between the two fuels. Also, I have stock turbo still, which might affect the results.