103ppm Iron????????

[Cattletrkr]

Just got my first oil analysis back today. Been reading a few threads about analysissssss and I'm not really sure what to do. 103 seems to be way off the charts high according to other posts.



Oil had 9K at time of sampling, 2K more now. Just changed the filter the other day, got sick of waiting for results. I'm wondering if I should just dump the oil and start over or wait 'til 15K. Results say, "no corrective action req'd. Oil is Suitable for continued use" Whatcha'all think???



I'm not naming the oil or tester 'cause I don't want that tainting your opinions.

 

[dozzer]

does seem high but i am no expert, someone on who has more knowledge will reply. just curious, what kind and weight oil was it?

 

[amsoilman]

Just got my first oil analysis back today. Been reading a few threads about analysissssss and I'm not really sure what to do. 103 seems to be way off the charts high according to other posts.



Oil had 9K at time of sampling, 2K more now. Just changed the filter the other day, got sick of waiting for results. I'm wondering if I should just dump the oil and start over or wait 'til 15K. Results say, "no corrective action req'd. Oil is Suitable for continued use" Whatcha'all think???



I'm not naming the oil or tester 'cause I don't want that tainting your opinions.

I would believe what your Oil ANalysis Lab says! They do know what they are doing, and if a component gets out of spec. they will inform you. If they report "no corrective action reqd. Oil is Suitable for continued use", I would belive them.



My older 94 CTD had an Iron (Fe) reading of 130 on one of my analysis, but was informed this was still OK. (I called the lab on that one)



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[bulabula]

Other than changing the oil there's not much you can do. Don't forget that there are many variables in sampling oil; and the first ones that come to mind are that testing mistakes can happen, and sampling technique mistakes can happen. I've seen it before - usually it was the sampler and not the testing.



But as said above, if the oil is suitable for continues use - I'd continue to use it. Do a couple of short interval samples if it makes you feel better. Initial snapshot samples are good, but you should be interested in trends. Then and only then can you make an informed decision.



If you decide to change the oil, and want to use that initial sample as a basis for the next time, don't change the oil type on the next change.

 

[Cattletrkr]

It's AMSOIL 5w-30, tested by OAI. I don't have enough to run it again. I've got a barrel of AMS 15w-40 that I'll be using from next change on. The 5w-30 already has 11K on it so I'll probably hust sample it at 15K and see what the results say.

 

[JJW_ND]

Try a 5W40 oil...

I ran several 24K intervals of 15W40 Amsoil and then several 5W30 Amsoil. I had the highest FE readings on the 5W30. I had intervals get near 100 or over with both oils. In my case, high FE were related to Si getting out of line (one was with a K&N).



I loved how the 5W30 did in the winter. THe 15W40 did not seem to provide much improvemnt in cold starting over dino 15W40.



I have now ran Delvac 1 5W40 a cycle or so. I think (not enough intervals and not using my truck the same anymore) that it would do a little better in very warm summer hard pulling situations. It does better then 15W40 oil in the winter but not quite as quick of oil pressure as I got with 5W30. It seems to mist or blow much less out the blowby tube as the 5W30. THe Mobil is rediculeslly expensive but a little cheaper then 5W30 (commercial account pricing).



I would not have liked that high of Fe on that short of interval unless it was one of the first half a dozen samples from that engine.



My engine usually starts out in the 30 - 40ppm Fe at 6K. I only run a stratapore filter (no bypass). I sample and change filter ever 6K.



jjw

ND

 

[Cattletrkr]

Forgot to mention... truck now has 65K on it. Oil went in at 54K. Been running synthetic of one brand or another since about 15K.



I'm just gonna leave it alone and sample again at next filter change which will put the oil at 16K.



Can I just take some oil out of the filter for the sample?

 

[Buffalo]

Interesting thread.

I just got my first oil sample results back, the other day.

I have an '03, HO with 36299 miles on it and 8303 miles on the oil when it was sampled. I, also, live in the desert (hot & dusty) & was curious about the silicon levels as I was running an AFE ProGuard-7 air filter system with a pre-filter. I was wondering about how much silicon got past that filter. I ran the AFE most of the miles, approximately 75%. Changed back to the stock filtering set-up because I had to take the truck in for warranty work on the injectors & didn't want anything that would raise a flag regarding the injector issue.



My Iron level was 22. Silicon was 5.



The oil I was using was the older style Chevron Delo-400, 15w-40. with a Fleetguard oil filter (stratopore).



The lab I dealt with is Empire/Cat, in Mesa, AZ.



Their remarks were, "No action required". "No problems presently associated with this sample. Continue sampling at normal interval. "



Does the 5 ppm silicon level sound high?



I'm going over to "bob is the oil guy.com" and look up any info I can find about this sample.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"It's AMSOIL 5w-30, tested by OAI. "



Pretty much explains it all to me!



I've seen similar high readings with synthetics before - and also some pretty radical off-the-wall analysis readings from OAI...



Yes, that IS a high reading, and YES, I would send the next sample to some other lab...



I sent 3 identical oil samples to 3 outfits - Cat, Blackstone, and OAI. OAI was so far out in left field as compared to the other 2 as to be totally WORTHLESS - I will NEVER use them again...



And yes Wayne, I realize different motors WILL deliver differing analysis readings, but in MY book. 100+ iron or other wear metals will NEVER be consideded "normal" or acceptable...

 

[Cattletrkr]

My amsoil dealer gave me a 2 for 1 deal on the sample kits. He paid for one 'cause he's curious to know how it turns out also. I'll be sending the next sample to the same place.



What's the significance of the silicon #? Mine's at 7.



Here's the whole thing:

Iron---103

Chromium---3

Lead---12

Copper---8

Tin---0

Aluminum---6

Nickel---0

Silver---3

Silicon---7

Boron---11

Sodium---2

Magnesium---191

Calcium---3972

Barium---0

Phos. ---1474

Zinc---1694

Moly. , Titanium, Vanadium, Potassium. ---all 0



Fuel <1%

Viscocity @100*---12. 12

Water---0%

Glycol---neg.

TBN---7. 31

Oxid---11. 0

Nitr---10. 0

F-soot---0. 95



The back of the report gives an explanation for everythiung, but doesn't say what acceptable levels are.

 

[amsoilman]

Can I just take some oil out of the filter for the sample?

No, DO NOT take a sample from your filter, as you can get contaminants in the oil sample too easily! When sampleing, ALWAYS take the sample from the same place!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[amsoilman]

"It's AMSOIL 5w-30, tested by OAI. "



Pretty much explains it all to me!



I've seen similar high readings with synthetics before - and also some pretty radical off-the-wall analysis readings from OAI...



Yes, that IS a high reading, and YES, I would send the next sample to some other lab...



I sent 3 identical oil samples to 3 outfits - Cat, Blackstone, and OAI. OAI was so far out in left field as compared to the other 2 as to be totally WORTHLESS - I will NEVER use them again...



And yes Wayne, I realize different motors WILL deliver differing analysis readings, but in MY book. 100+ iron or other wear metals will NEVER be consideded "normal" or acceptable...

Sorry Gary, thats not what I've been taught in several OA classes, and once you start with one lab, you should continue with that lab, as every lab uses differing equipment.



I know, I know, you and I have been over this before!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Tony T.]

Interesting thread.

I just got my first oil sample results back, the other day.

I have an '03, HO with 36299 miles on it and 8303 miles on the oil when it was sampled. I, also, live in the desert (hot & dusty) & was curious about the silicon levels as I was running an AFE ProGuard-7 air filter system with a pre-filter. I was wondering about how much silicon got past that filter. I ran the AFE most of the miles, approximately 75%. Changed back to the stock filtering set-up because I had to take the truck in for warranty work on the injectors & didn't want anything that would raise a flag regarding the injector issue.



My Iron level was 22. Silicon was 5.



The oil I was using was the older style Chevron Delo-400, 15w-40. with a Fleetguard oil filter (stratopore).



The lab I dealt with is Empire/Cat, in Mesa, AZ.



Their remarks were, "No action required". "No problems presently associated with this sample. Continue sampling at normal interval. "



Does the 5 ppm silicon level sound high?



I'm going over to "bob is the oil guy.com" and look up any info I can find about this sample.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

Joe I believe your in the ballpark with a 5 silicon reading, mine was a 4 with the stock filter, using Delo 400 15w/40 and a 5K mileage oil sample, 25K on the truck at time sample was taken. The only flag raised on my report was high Potassium level of 17, but Blackstone said they had noticed higher Potassium levels in these type engines. I will sample again at 35K.



Tony

 

[Cattletrkr]

No, DO NOT take a sample from your filter, as you can get contaminants in the oil sample too easily! When sampleing, ALWAYS take the sample from the same place!



Wayne

amsoilman

Kinda what I figured. The only way I can sample it now is to take it from the drainplug. I don't know if any of you have tried that but it sucks. I took about 2 minutes trying to get the oil to drip out but NOTHING would come out until the plug was COMPLETELY OUT. Great for no leaks, but crap for sampling. Had to replace 2 qts to make up for what I lost sampling. All in all not a bad thing either I guess, just gonna screw with the next sample I suppose.

 

[amsoilman]

Kinda what I figured. The only way I can sample it now is to take it from the drainplug. I don't know if any of you have tried that but it sucks. I took about 2 minutes trying to get the oil to drip out but NOTHING would come out until the plug was COMPLETELY OUT. Great for no leaks, but crap for sampling. Had to replace 2 qts to make up for what I lost sampling. All in all not a bad thing either I guess, just gonna screw with the next sample I suppose.

If you don't have a by-pass system where you can capture a sample from a hose, the best way to get a sample is from the oil dip stick tube using an oil suction pump available from Amsoil Inc. This unit is a hand pump where the oil sample container screws on to the hand pump and comes with 25 ft of plastic tubing. The tubing is inserted in the dip stick tube until it reaches the bottom, then you raise it an inch or two and start pumping. It will fill the oil sample container in short order, and there is NO MESS. Stock # G-1206



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"once you start with one lab, you should continue with that lab, as every lab uses differing equipment. "



OK Wayne, this is as good a spot as any to examine that statement...



IF I go to a doctor to get my blood pressure checked - and he comes back with a 250/130. I'd be concerned - and his statement that their test guage was "just different" from other offices sure would NOT reassure ME!



Same with taking my temperature, or other similar "measurements" - there is either a STANDARD, or there is NOT - and as far as *I* know, that "standard" as universally applied to oil analysis, is a PPM (parts per million) reading.



If I go to a dyno to test my engine's power - and get a HP reading of 1000 HP, with mods that OTHER truck owners typically get only 350 HP out of, should I be "reassured" when the dyno owner simply tells me HIS dyno is set up different than other dynoes? And how can I have even a CLUE as to how my truck REALLY compares to other similar trucks?



OR, closer to home, in your case, do the various "tests" Amsoil does or has done on THEIR lubricants REALLY mean anything, or do possible lab/equipment variations mean those dandy specs they print in their ads and webpages MIGHT not stand up very well if compared to results from OTHER labs?



SOME of us do these sort of analysis and tests for COMPARISONS with other truck owners - and how pertinant and useful can that info be, if such significant deviations from a standard exist? SURE, small variations CAN be expected and allowed for - but if the USUAL iron reading in comparative samples is in the high teens, WHY would any reasonable person NOT question or be concerned with one over 100 - just as the guy starting THIS thread is?



OR, to put it another way, IF one lab is pretty far out with it's numbers in relation to competitors, is it REALLY even a valid source for longer term comparison analysis testing on the SAME engine? Sure, different labs probably DO use different equipment and minor variations in calibration - but the STANDARD of measurement SHOULD be a constant - and NO excuse for radical differences in readings from the same samples sent to several different testers as I have documented on this board before!



So WHY would any customer be expected to meekly accept that OAI, or ANY other lab results - should so radically differ from others presumably conforming to the same standard units of measurement?

 

[JJW_ND]

FE will drop...

It is too bad they changed the drain plug design the allowed you to control the oil drained with the plug in. I have pulled all my engine oil samples from the plug (I have access to a hoist... . helps alot). I pull about a gallon or so, catch a sample and return the gallon to the engine.



If you add that much make up oil you will be dropping your Fe just from dilution.



The rest of you values all look pretty decent (as compared to what I see with my engine). Your Soot is getting up there and you really wacked the TBN. I never got the low even with 24K miles on the oil.



I have used CTC labs and my local CAT dealer. I sent a sample early on to both labs and did get different values.



The most meaningful thing to me with analysis is having 200K worth of sampling ever 6K on the same engine. Helps you put values especially unusual ones in perspective. I have also had the head off my engine and the valve train side cover after 200K miles. This also really put all analysis data, quality of the oil, High EGTs, many miles of hard pulling, and all the other things we get parinoid over in perspective.



jjw

ND

 

[DSpencer]

What do you guys make of this comparison of oil analysis labs?



http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/labtest.html

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I was sorta amused by THIS line:



" Oil Analyzers fares well too, especially considering the comparatively low cost, but the lack of

insolubles and flashpoint testing is disappointing (and you do have to get past the very close association with Amsoil). "

 

[FourBarR]

I dont bother with oil sampling. I have no problem with those who do. I have 370000kms on mine doesnt use any oilbetween changes at 20,000 kms. on shell 15w40 since new. we use to do oil samples on our aircraft engines, and go various results . we removed 2 engines they indicated had problems. tear down reports found no problems. expensive mistakes. dont do it any more. now several years later we have not had any engine failures as a result. the p&w 985 engines here do not even have air filters.