Competition 11.36 @ 120, #2 only and runs clean

[Forrest Nearing]

drugs are good in moderation!



but propane is for flowersmokes that can't put out any real fuel :-laf

 

[therabbittree]

ah more smoke is more EGTs normally ... and diesels run lean air fuel ratios compared to a gassser... . no smoke does not mean higher EGTs... propane is fuel substitute . . ie when you can't get bigger injectors you can run propane to make up ther difference. Nitrous is a air and intercooling substitute. . if you need to spool a huge single off the line the nitrous can add the oxygen needed to spool and it can clean up your smoke, also it lowers the intake temps alot so you can use it as a intercooler so you don't have a real intercooler restricting the airflow. . methanol is added with the water injection as a fuel subsitute/ catalyst. . It can make more power. . but you have to get it mixed well and in the right ratio.

Hope that helps you,

Later,

Deo

 

[EMD-Run8]

Who's truck is that again? What's it take to get a 2wd to hook that good? Those slicks didn't look THAT big.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

MDW..... Micheal Watkins, it doesn't take that much to get a small tire to hook, just a little knowledge and tuning... . a big tire is not the answer. Note: Ever wonder how someone can make a 10. 5 tire car go in the 6's at 200+.



Jim

 

[Mundgyver]

The smaller the tire, the more Torque you can put to the ground to a point. Torque Wins The Race every time.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

Horsepower Wins The Race every time.

fixed it for ya

 

[Mundgyver]

Nope, Torque is the winner. Torque is the force that gets you down the track, HP is just braggin rights. This is why a V-8 Diesel with a short stoke can do high end speed, but get on a little hill and the I-6 will take em out every time. Torque If you want to find out if HP will do the trick or Torque, here is the test that works.



Two trucks, does not matter which engine. Weigh em up and then make them equal in weight to the exact lb. Now put em side by side on a 10% grade pulling 20,000 lbs each at the exact same speed of 60 mpg. Which one starts to fall behind with cruse control set and no other input. The one with the least amount Torque being produced is going to loose. The I-6 engine will have the advantage as it can build and hold large amounts of torque. Match the wieght per contestant pound for pound and match the HP and the difference will be the winner will have more TQ.



HP will not get you to the top, it will be torque, you either have or you don't.



All the HP in world won't win if you can't put the Torque to the road. Bigger tires require more torque to turn. Remember you are applying force form the hub center out. The greater the radius the more Torque it takes for a given amount of weight. Reduce the tires size by one and your reduce the amount of torque it takes to turn the wheel, thus allowing you to transmit more surplus torque. Increase the tires size and you eat up your surplus. Eat up your surplus and now your huffing and puffin to try and keep up.



The same applies for the I-6 Configuration or the V-8. The I-6 has a longer stroke and throw and can develop more torque while the V-8 is shorter and develops less torque. The V-8 has the advantage of more RPM which means that it has to run harder to develop the same torque as the I-6, thereby it had to be Huffin and puffin harder to achieve the same level of performance of the I-6.



HP is just braggin rights, Torque always wins. Just ask anyone who pulls a sled. He wants HP yes, but those who consistantly win these pulls and are always on top will build for Torque production.



There is a vido posted here on the site of a Lowly Oil burner beating a Vet in the QTR mile. Both are very very fast at about 120 to 121 mph. The truck weighs in at somewhere around 7,000 lbs while the vet is around 3,500 lbs. Lets bring the weight of the VET up to match the truck and see who gets down the track the fastest. The vet won't even come close.



Torque will win every time when every thing is considered.

 

[KingS]

Sorry but it takes both. Torque gets you moving off the line and your 60 times, after that when you rpms come up you better have some hp, or you are not going to get down the track at no recaord pace.



If it was torque us 12v guys would be able to take out most truck pushing higher hp number, because are torgue to hp ratio is lopesided compared to the other trucks out there.

 

[Mundgyver]

OH I agree it takes both, and there is no doubt in anyones mind that it requires both, but the component of TQ, is and always will be your deciding factor when you have equal HP and all other factors are equal also.

 

[EMD-Run8]

When the Audi R10 made its debut at the Sebring 12 hour, one announcer asked Dorsey Schroeder which he would prefer in a race car----torque or horsepower. His answer---"Torque every time. Its what gets you off the turns". They were noting how the R10 was just snatchin' the gassers off the turns. I mean, the R10 redlines between 5500 and 6000 rpm and pulls gassers like the V8 Porsche which revs to 11,500 with no trouble at all.

 

[Mundgyver]

Exactly my point. When you build for power or reliability or both, if one looks for TQ as the driving factor, you win in the end. Look at the MPG a Cummins engin gets when towing over a V-8 Ford or Duramax. HP has nothing to do with it. TQ. Set up of tow or haul what ever weight you want and pick you speed based on where you peak TQ develops, and that is where your engin runs most efficently.



The Audi has an abundance of TQ that it brings to play comming out of the corners and that is why it walked away from anything that tried to get close to it. HP is nice, but TQ rules the race.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

nope, horsepower wins every time as long as you're geared properly...



that's why indy cars make a crap-ton more power than they do torque... they're race cars



give me 700hp and 1000ftlbs of torque over 500hp and 1200ftlbs of torque any day of the week... in a similar weight vehicle w/ the right gearing, the 700hp is going to stomp the 500hp in a race every time!

 

[Mundgyver]

You've just admited twice that TQ wins by making the following statements (as long as you're geared properly) And (in a similar weight vehicle w/ the right gearing..... )



Sorry



Manipulate gearing and you are affecting TQ. You either build or reduce TQ depending on the gearing.



So once again TQ is the bottom line.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

nope...



why do F1 cars make 1300hp and minimal torque? horsepower is a function of how fast you can do work (torque)



if you're racing, horsepower is the number you're after

 

[Mundgyver]

Argue all you want, but the books say other wise.



Torque: Understanding the relationship between torque, power and engine speed is vital in automotive engineering, concerned as it is with transmitting power from the engine through the drive train to the wheels. Typically power is a function of torque and engine speed. The gearing of the drive train must be chosen appropriately to make the most of the motor's torque characteristics.



HorsePower: Metric horsepower, as a rule, is defined as 0. 73549875 kW, or roughly 98. 6% of mechanical horsepower. This was a minor issue in the days when measurement systems varied widely and engines produced less power, but has become a major sticking point today. Exotic cars from Europe like the McLaren F1 and Bugatti Veyron are often quoted using the wrong definition, and their power output is sometimes even converted twice because of confusion over whether the original "horsepower" number was metric or mechanical.

 

[KingS]

F1 are gear so they can run that speed for an exteneded period. But they aren't 1/4 machines it take them some travel to get to top speed. Yes it take alot of hp to get fast take top fuel dragsters alot of HP and average TQ so to compinsate for that off the line they rev up the rpms at the line to get the HP TQ ratio up to launch and get the rpm's up into the HP range of the motor to get them there speeds in the 1/4 mile.

 

[Mundgyver]

It is a balancing act for sure.



The engine to build would be one that you could vary the length of the stoke while it is running. If an engine could be developed that could do that, you could have the best of both world of Torque and Horse Power.

 

[JHellmann]

F1 are gear so they can run that speed for an exteneded period. But they aren't 1/4 machines it take them some travel to get to top speed. Yes it take alot of hp to get fast take top fuel dragsters alot of HP and average TQ so to compinsate for that off the line they rev up the rpms at the line to get the HP TQ ratio up to launch and get the rpm's up into the HP range of the motor to get them there speeds in the 1/4 mile.

Top Fuel launches at idle. They also have about 7000 HP.

 

[Mundgyver]

What would make for an interesting look would be to watch the Torque curve, the RPM curve and the Horse Power curve on a data acquition unit for the length of a racing lap of an F-1 car or Dragster or Sleder or even a street truck.



Put all those curves on top of each other over a period of time and conditions and the information would be very revealing for driving style against loads and such.



Anybody know of any software that can do that.

 

[Dockboy]

This is like argueing which came first, the chicken or the egg! :-{} :-laf



Torque is merely a function of where in the rpm range you make Horsepower



Hint:



A Dynojet measures the Horsepower it takes to accelerate a known weight over a given period of time. It doesn't care about gearing or torque. Now, give that acceleration a corelation to rpm's (tach signal), and it will calculate the torque for you.



So, the more Horsepower you make lower in the rpm range means more Torque and a faster initial acceleration. The more Horsepower you make in the upper rpm range means less Torque but a faster acceleration once moving.