#11 fuel plate?

[Hookemupman]

Did i read with the #11 plate all the way forward can cause governor damage?I like power with it slid forward but do not want to hurt anything. thanks

 

[drawson]

I ran the #11 all the way forward for a year and a half and there was no damage, But all of our pumps are unique. The only way to know if the plate all the way back is the stop pin instead of the plate.



The power is great

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Dee, before you say "no damage" I suggest you pull the head and magnaflux it for cracks

check the cylinder walls for scuffing if you were into it with high egts for very long.



It is unfortunate that air system upgrades take the back seat to fueling. Since the engine doesn't usually puke, folks assume no harm is done.



The #11 should be installed in the stock position to control egt. If you want more power, go to the 10 for tons of torque and more power, with some high rpm egt control. After you port the head, get the ATS exhaust manifold, and HX40-18, then you are ready to move the plate. Even then egt's will get too high--mine did at 510 hp with the above. The long term fix is the custom camshaft DD and I developed and an even bigger turbo for more airflow.



Mark and I put a lot of effort into the 12,11,10 series, designing them for moderately b. o. m. b. ed trucks to keep egt down somewhat. You lose some of the benefit when moving the plate forward. For the health of the engine, other (air) modifications are important if you want more fueling.



Hope these suggestions help.

 

[JGK]

#11 vs #10 Plate

Joe,



It seems to me at one time you commented on the difference between these 2 plates. As I remember, you said the #10 was designed to provide more power in the upper RPMs - 2200 to 2600 or some such. That is, it was designed more for pulling (i. e. hauling) in the upper range. Correct me, please, if I'm mistaken and can you expand on this comparison? How is the 10 compared to the 11 for every day, 'round-the-town driving, as well as hauling?



Thanks,

-Jay

 

[drawson]

Jay, the bottom end of the #10 is stout to say the least. On the top end my modified #11 feels stronger, but I have no dyno sheets to show this just the seat of the pants meter. I haven't towed with the #10 yet but I think it would tow fine as long as your foot didn't get too deep too fast.



Joe, the ported head is just hanging out in my garage waiting for the time to take the truck out of service and install it.



Give us some data on delivery valves PLEEEASE

 

[Don M]

Dee,



Joe mentioned to me he still runs the stock 181 delivery valves.

I do call Joe way too much. Poor guy prolly cant get much done with the phone ringing all the time. I have put Piers through the same thing.

After you drive the truck with more HP it seems to begin to feel weak. The only way to deal with that is to add more power.



Don~

 

[drawson]

But Don soon we'll get to the point when the next level of HP cost as much as the truck did. LOL I talked to Joe alittle while back too and he told me the same thing about delivery valves but he also told me he was going to be test delivery valve here really soon and would let me know.



I may be getting too old or something but with the set up I have now on my truck, I'm happy with the power it has. But maybe this is just because of the ice and snow we keep getting.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The 10 is far stronger than the 11 up to about 2400 rpm. From 2400 up (assuming stock governor springs for these rpm's), it is about 20 hp stronger than the 11, if I recall the dyno sheets correctly. It is hard to understand the difference from just the peak power numbers. The 10 actually gives peak hp at lower rpm, about 2000 giving 345 on the dyno, and then begins cutting back fuel to keep egts down. the 11 is more of a street plate, with more torque control, in the range of 680-720 ft lb depending on the rest of the setup like turbo housing. The 11 is designed not to roast the clutch if it is in good condition. The 860 dynoed ft lb of the 10 necessitates a better clutch. Moving the 11 forward can give it more high rpm power than the 10 in stock position. Moving the 10 forward an equal amount will allow it to keep its hp advantage over the 11 at all rpm. However, I found that . 035" forward of stock gave the 10 about 373 hp (add 12 hp if using Torco 75-140 instad of stock lube; add 10 to the 345) but egts went up around 150 degrees. So, plate position bejcomes pretty important if you want to watch those egts. The 10 can easily give 1500 deg or more at 2000 if you are pulling such a load that it stays in that rpm range for long at full pedal. Mostly you accelerate out of it so fast that your pyro probe doesn't have time to read the high temp you got for an instant. By the time the probe catches up with reality, you are at higher rpm and the fueling pullback might be enough that you feel nothing really bad happened.



A while ago I tested the 191 delivery valves. On the flow bench they gave an increase at idle, from 30 to 43 cc/1000 strokes. At full flow, nothing (but we will retest with a bench setup that can take over 600 cc/1000 strokes to be sure). On the dyno, it was a warm day and the engine was pretty much air starved in the configuration I was using then. The first run with 191s seemed 15 hp stornger. Backup run was 15 hp worse than the 181s or down 30 hp total. Go figure. However on the street, I couldn't get rid of the smoke trail even on gentle takeoff with big injectors, so the valet switch wasn't able to fix the potential smog nazi problem. I went back to the 181s and used them for the 609 and 613 hp runs.



If you want more free dyno data, you will have to wait until I get around to testing the stuff you are interested in. I have several projects going on with Lawrence; his shop and dyno get busy at times (poor guy has to run a business sometimes). It is too expensive to go to another shop and pay $50 for each two runs; no one is helping me pay for parts etc. to get the information I am giving away here. I wish others would do some of the testing and share their information like I have done.

 

[JGK]

OK, so I wasn't entirely wrong, I was just backwards!



Thanks Joe and Dee.



-Jay

 

[drawson]

Joe, I hope you know I was just messing with ya You really have done alot more for me than I for you ever. You and sickly made me go even further HP wise, I was happy until that ride a couple of years ago and you where only 510 HP then.



Have you ever tried running an auto plate in your truck??? #8, #6, #5, or a #4??



The way these plate look to me is that they don't defuel at all compared to the #11 and #10?



Joe thank you for all your work!!!! With out it all us bombahaulics would be having fits.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Yeah, Dee, I have dyno'ed other plates. The defueling on the 12, 11, and 10 are to help keep egts in check. The zero has no defueling and that is what I have been running for some time. It is stronger than any of the others, and goes into stock position for ease of installation. No need or reason to slam it forward. As I posted under that thread, don't bother calling TST or Piers for them. TST custom makes them for me to my specs. I used to hand make them, but it is easier to get nice, precisely made hardened plates from Mark. I use them in "earnest" fueling situations for those who are "old enough. "



A 10 shoved forward will be very strong and have high egt, unless you have done all the air system improvements. Once you have done them, you might be old enoguh for the 0



The 8 dyno's a bit less mid range than the 11, the 11 is probably close to the 6 in mid range. The auto plates like 8 and 6 are stronger over 2400 (stock governor/rocker height) at the expense of high egt.



I'm a bit edgy these days, Dee, because Sickly is whining that he wants new bowls and that type of container is expensive.

 

[drawson]

Joe NEW BOWLS???? Are you talking about wheels? Did you get your wheel yet?



How does your trailer tow with the #0?



So I need to install my ported head, get a ATS manifold, and a 18 Housing for my HX-40 and then I can have a #0??



To be perfectly honest I'm kind of a scared to towing with this #10 plate for fear of ripping the hitch right off the trailer

 

[JohnE]

OK Joe, you got me confused, but hooked.

I look at the TST chart for plates and see 280hp/680ft-lb for the #11 and 330hp/750ft-lb for the #10

You post numbers of ?/680-720ft-lb for the #11 and 345hp/860ft-lb for the #10 plate.

Conservative ratings from TST or the benefits of (air) modifications? I assume air means turbo.



Bowls? Sounds as if someone is getting into the next step beyond a ported head and work the <em>other</em> half of the combustion chamber?



-John