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Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting 12 guage slugs vs a bear?

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When boondocking with our RV out in wilderness areas, I usually carry a 12 guage Mossberg 500 pump action riot gun (pistol grip short barrel like cops carry in their patrol cars), and while it's adequate for most 2 or 4 legged predators, how effective would a 12 guage slug be as compared to large buckshot in stopping something as large as a 3-400 lb bear? I realize accuracy at any real distance with a slug would likely be poor - so would a shot shell be better - along with a good life insurance policy? ;) :D
 
Slugs would be better on a bear. If he is too far away to hit easily with slugs, he is not a threat to you. Just the noise will usually scare them away. A small pack of firecrackers will scare the heck out of them.
 
I'm with Ron on this one. If you can put a 12 Ga sabot in a plate at 75 yrds. then a slug will work for you. Just make sure you have a bear tag or proof of an attack before you pull the trigger. F&G doesn't take lightly undocumented harvest of game animals.
 
A handgun starting at 44 Mag & up would be a better solution. Shotgun slugs & bears don't mix. You want to be able to break bone (Large sectional density & lower velocity of a slug won't penetrate like a good hardcast handgun bullet) A big bear can absorb enormous punishment if angered. Post this question on a few of the outdoors websites such as www.24hourcampfire.com for more info. Some very knowledgable and experienced Alaskan guys there.
 
I've done a bit of work on this in an ongoing effort to allow my crews, and those like myself and the range folks who often work alone, to carry a weapon while working in G-bear country. Basically, we are the only folks running around in the hills WITHOUT a firearm during the hunting season when bear are in hyperphagia and very active. The information I've collected is from AK where FS crews are permitted to carry firearms.



The two sanctioned weapons are either a 12ga slug or a 375 mag. - period. This is for use on the salmon feed brown bears, i. e. BIG bears.



The best first line of defense is undoubtedly pepper spray, which has been 80% effective in stopping an aggressive bear versus 50% success with firearms. However, you should have at least two methods, hint, follow the pepper spray with a slug or 375 if necessary. :) Suggestion, it takes practice to be able to hit a moving target when your nether regions are puckered.
 
I work nights and it's slow tonight, so I'm resurecting from the dead.



Put a full stock on your shotgun a pistol grip only is dumb. You shouldn' t have to ask.



Slugs have much more juice than a 44 mag. 1 oz of lead at 1600+fps vs 250 grain at 1150 or 1200 fps. there isn't much comparsion.
 
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Personally I would go back to a full stock. . . more accurate if your acttualy using it... you will be ******* yourself and will need all the help you can get...

This is the standard load on bush shotguns in alaska... where cubs are bigger than the blacks in the continental us. .

00-00-SLUG-SLUG-00... in the crap, crap, steady, steady, CRAP. . mindstate...
 
Well it was some time ago while at the range we had a spare old Point-Blank model bullet proof vest. We set it up against an approx 2 foot diameter tree. We fired a 12ga slug. The slug penetrated the front and back of the vest and approx 4 inches into the Oak tree. I have also fired slugs at old cars an have seen them penetrate and break engine blocks in half.



So I am quite sure a slug would do a substantial amount of damage to a bear.



Also if you have never shot a 12ga slug before you will want a gun with a shoulder stock. They have quite a kick to them and I am not sure you would want to fire slug only using a pistol grip type shotgun.



This is just my opinion from experience
 
Just try to shoot ANYTHING other than a mild dove load with a pistol grip shotgun, you'd think your wrist was broken for you are concentrating nearly all of the recoil into your wrist, how smart is that? What professional cops carry is a Mossberg Bullpup. It has a vertical forearm grip and pistol type main grip. It also relocates the pistol grip & trigger 14" in FRONT of the receiver ejection port, drastically reducing the overall length, built from a model 500 with barrel heatshield and carry handle. Firing from the hip, you are dividing the recoil into the vertical forearm grip, trigger pistol grip, and your hip or inside our right arm. As a result, felt recoil is actually pleasant, even when firing 3" magnum buckshot or slugs with the max powder charge (4 drams). THis load looks like a flame thrower when fired and sounds like a howitzer, very impressive.

You could also use specialized "frangible" slugs which are pre-fraged with buckshot behind it, so the slug breaks apart on impact and the buckshot then enters behind it, concentrated in one hole so the shot achieves maximum penetration and organ destruction. Another impressive load has two 69 caliber lead balls that are cast around a 8" strong piano wire, coiled in between, called strung buck. It does not have as much range as a single conical slug but it can wack a bears leg off or even decapitate his head! Lets see a bear attack you without his head!

There are a multitude of 3rd party ammo makers for the 12 guage load, like bird bombs which have a m-80 load or a max hotload slug made of tungsten for hunting a rhinocerous, serious diesel engine blaster there.

Frankly I prefer a Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 for bear but that is another story.
 
For self-defense against bears, people or anything else, you cannot beat a shotgun with slugs or sabots. That is a big hole and a heckuva wallup. Especially if you have 3 1/2 inch magnum!



If you need more range than it provides, you are not shooting in self-defense. If you worry about single vs. multiple projectiles, load both alternately (slug, 00 buck, slug, etc). Try that with a pistol or rifle!



I agree: Lose the pistol grip.



A full stock and a 26 inch barrel on a pump or semi-auto with a selection of choke tubes and loads gives you tremendous versatility and fast, accurate handling along with fast followup shots. If you have only one gun with you, versatility is important.



There is nothing immortal about a bear. Put an arrow, much less a slug or sabot, into the vitals and the bear is going down. How hard and fast is what is important in self-defense. There is no bone on a bear a slug won't devastate.



My first bear was a moderate-sized 300 lb black bear with a bow. We were eyeball to eyeball at 25 yards. He chose flight over fight (an arrow has zero knock-down power; so thank God!) and spun to run away. The arrow went in behind his rib cage as he quartered away, cut through his liver and lungs, sliced the aorta off the top of his heart, exited out his armpit, and disappeared into the brush and timber beyond him never to be found. That bear gave one huge grunt like he had been kicked in the ribs hard, made one huge lunge at the same time, and hit the ground stone dead. You couldn't have killed him faster with a 7mm magnum.
 
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Such complex responses to a simple question... that has a simple answer...

Yes, a slug will work better than 000, 00 or #1 buckshot with all things being equal in the gun, from a stopping power (force) standpoint.

The little 500 riot barrel is not rifled so the slug won't spin very well, but it will deliver more force... hopefully you won't need it. I'd buy a 5 pack of 3" LE slugs. JMHO

No need to reconfigure your whole protection mojo for a 1 in a million chance at needing to shoot Smokey. :-laf
 
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I agree on the full stock over the pistol grip in this case. The 1 OZ lead slugs are pretty accurate in a smooth bore at 50 yards. In a smooth bore do not use the saboted solid copper hollow points at 370 grain wt. While they are devastating as far as bone breaking knock down they are useless for accuracy. I shot them in the smooth bore and 4 out of 5 would keyhole at 25 yards. The sabot will not spin the slug for accuracy in the smooth bore. The regular lead slug will work good in the smooth bore. Because of this I bought a 24" rifled barrell with rifle sights also magnaported for my Mosburg 500. at 50 yards you can have 3 slugs touching each other on the target. I would really like to have a 20" barrell for carrying on the ATV but mosburg only makes a 24". I can't cut it down as it would mess up the magnaporting. Where I hunt now in Alaska it is on narrow trails with not to much forward or side visability so now I carry the shotgun on the ATV as you would not have time to get the rifle with a scope into use for a bear. Just my 2 cents
 
Such complex responses to a simple question... that has a simple answer...



Yes, a slug will work better than 000, 00 or #1 buckshot with all things being equal in the gun, from a stopping power (force) standpoint.



The little 500 riot barrel is not rifled so the slug won't spin very well, but it will deliver more force... hopefully you won't need it. I'd buy a 5 pack of 3" LE slugs. JMHO



No need to reconfigure your whole protection mojo for a 1 in a million chance at needing to shoot Smokey. :-laf



YUP - exactly the same bottom line I arrived at - not considering a whole new gun for a remote possibility situation - just wondering about potential effectiveness in use of slugs against larger predators in the gun I already own... ;)
 
Another vote for the slug. Heck, even if you miss him the wind from it should darn near knock him over. (kidding of course). At 75 yards or less, they pack a mean wallop. Doesn't matter if they hit nose first or broadside something is gonna get thumped.
 
Pretty sure Gary is only concerned about a few yards at best... . this will be a life-or-death protection situation, not hunting.



The bear spray (pepper sprays) work really well, as someone pointed out earlier. Get a big bottle or two to those, also.
 
Pretty sure Gary is only concerned about a few yards at best... . this will be a life-or-death protection situation, not hunting.
Yeah, that's what I got out of his wording also.

I've always had the same concern when camping in the sierras. Wondered if pepper spray would work, or just make him more aggressive. Even though I like the ol clanker colt 1911 for up close, its still probably not enough to stop an aggravated bear. So it's good to read that pepper spray has a good history with them. With the above posted, sounds like its cross your fingers, keep food out of site and try a long range pepper spray canister first, but have some slugs ready to fly if that doesn't turn him away.

But, what if it's a mountain lion or wild pigs (2 or 4 legged)? Might want to have some double 0 shot handy. Yeah, I still like the 45 auto with a spare clip handy.
 
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Pretty sure Gary is only concerned about a few yards at best... . this will be a life-or-death protection situation, not hunting.



The bear spray (pepper sprays) work really well, as someone pointed out earlier. Get a big bottle or two to those, also.



YUP - most anything I'm likely to use will be applied from over my shoulder as I'm running away at top speed... :-laf:-laf



But actually, the riot-type shotgun was selected both for relative efficiency, small profile (compared to a full size shotgun) and less intrusive size - I have no doubt as to it's effectiveness against human predators, just by sight and sound of racking a round itself. :eek:



BUT, I've heard several incidents of campers being attacked as they sleep outdoors in sleeping bags - one incident some years back in Yosemite, where a young girl camper was attacked by a bear, killed and eaten there on the spot, as other helpless campers looked on - powerless to stop the bear.



I don't want to EVER be in a similar situation, and powerless to help, regardless of whether it's at the hands of 2, or 4 legged attackers... ;)
 
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