Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 12 or 24 valves?

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Gary, it sounds like you're trying to compare a 1st gen 12 valve to a 24. Think this thread started concerning keeping a '97.



MY mistake - I thought it was many of the second generation trucks suffering from KDP problems and plugged catalytic converters, blown headgaskets and a pretty decent scattering of other engine-related problems - and that one complaint leveled against the 24 valvers was "a bunch of emissions stuff" It ALSO appeared to me that this WAS degenerating into yet another "bash the 24 valvers" thread - GLAD I was wrong!



Most of us are here because we truly APPRECIATE our chosen trucks - REGARDLESS of how many valves they have - and most of us are ALSO smart enough to realize that as good as the various Cummins engines used in various year Dodges are, they ALL have weak/strong points that have surfaced over time - and when we drop down to the level of seriously bashing someone ELSES Cummins pride and joy, we're not "cool", we're simply eating our own...



I sure wish we could realize that, and drop this continual "my 12 valve is BETTER than YOUR 24 valve nonsense" - one isn't particularly "better" than the other, just different - and the sooner we RESPECT each other's personal choice of engine type for their specific wants and needs, the calmer this board will be!

 

[TPCDrafting]

alllll righty then! Now that that's out of the way, SCox, I'm just glad to hear that your looking at another Dodge and not elsewhere. I'd say if the deal is right, and it's what you want, go for it. Life's too short to only have one toy in the barn.

BTW welcome to the TDR. You know for a new guy around here, you sure know how to stir up the pot!

 

[Hammer]

CC says-"I say go for it! That is if you want power anyway. I have never ridden in a 12v truck that ran anything like a well-running 24v. "-Guess the only way to comment on this is to consider the source... .

Then Darrell tries a flame job with his suit on and flames out saying this-"Just something about being a few valves short of a real diesel motor that doesn't sit real good with me. "-While you may have the 60lb springs already,do not have to dirty your fingers to tune yours up and can turn the power off with a switch when you become skeered in bad weather,we PROPERLY valved owners will always stop to assist you when your VP44 dies from failure or the ECM goes into limp mode,,Properly valved owners are not afraid of a little grease on their hands when tuning and will not balk at being overpowered in bad weather like the computer scooter croud does.....

These are comments that amaze me-"No Killer Dowel Pin, no fuel sender problems",," "Killer dowel pin" in a 12 valver"-HMMM,Gotta wonder if those who typed these comments in are wearing blinders,,It has been said before and has been seen by some that these newer motors are NOT KDP invincable,they do have the same failures so don't think it can not happen just because its a "newer design motor",it can and has to the 24 valvers,,The no fuel sender problems cracks me up,with VP44's and their weak lift pumps failing at alarming rates one only wonders what even prompoted a comment like that.....

Steve,the only thing I can offer is this,,Power can be made with either truck it a proven point,you need to decide what YOU want and go with it,,I myself like both,they both have good points and bad points,but,to me they are still Dodges and thats where my allegience lies,,If a 6sp is what you want and like your truck look for someone in the area that has done the conversion to a 12 valver,,After driving one that has been done(12v 6spd combo)its amazed mne at how much nicer the 6spd works with the older design motor than the 24 valve,,With the short fast revving 24 valve, the 6spd can be a test of your patience at times due to having to shift so quickly and not staying in a gear long enough to be effictive,,When its installed into a 12 valver where the powerband is a little slower and broader it allows the effective use of all of the transmissions gears and does not need shifted as fast so the powerband becomes broader,,Hope you make a choice you want and either or its still a great truck..... Andy

 

[SCox]

12v & 24v In the driveway

Thanks for all the feedback, i went and got the 24v today after talking with Mark at TST. He said there is nothing to be afraid of, if you like the truck, go for it. I didn't know I would stir up everyone with such a simple question. It seems to me the best answer was to go with what I really liked, they both have pros and cons. So i am now the very proud owner of a fully loaded 2001 3500 24v HO, 6spd xtracab, 4x4 with no regrets. Now I have to modify my sig. One hitch, the 12v is still in the driveway, don't know how long the wife will let me keep both trucks.





thanks

SteveOo.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Hammer - all *I* can say, is:



"It ALSO appeared to me that this WAS degenerating into yet another "bash the 24 valvers" thread - GLAD I was wrong!"



Party on, dudes... :-{}

 

[Pit Bull]

Way to go on the new truck Steve What color is it? Looks like you didn't have a bad choice whatever you decided to do

 

[SCox]

Color

Pit bull,

The truck is a forest green, first dually I've noticed this color, with grey interior. Hopefully this truck will not show scratches as bad as my black 12v.

Steve

 

[Hammer]

Gary,,I can see what you mean on the one is better than the other flame jobs,,My opinion is they are both very good and both have their different downfalls,neither is perfect,,Glad to see Steve bought the truck he wanted and all the enjoyment that goes along with it,,Only thing Steve has to fear now,since the truck is a Forest Green 3500 H/O,is how to hide it from one of our M-D TDR members who is looking for a truck optioned like this if he'd venture up for a club happening,,Congrats on the new ride... ... Andy

 

[jimk]

24 valve truck

I have thought about a different truck also. I have talked to different sales persons I have asked how do you get a 24 valve that gets over 20 miles to gallon?

The answer is some do and some dont, I am not willing to buy a 14 or 15 miles to gallon truck.

I found a 12v loaded 5 speed with 4x4 quad cab) that has 54k miles ( I think ) but It is green. I dont care for green so I passed.

I found a guy on the way home that he rebuild dodge diesel and he had several 12 and 24 valve engines in his shop. I have thought that I could buy a clean 24 valve truck like I wont and if the lift pump or poor mileage or any thing else that I dont like I would have a conversion done as I asked him an he would do it. He would also do the auto to standard conversion and furnish all the parts 98 with 50k for the transmission and transfer case, and all other parts including steering columb, wiring ect for 3k$

Jimk

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Hammer - I *really* appreciate your understanding comments - as a group, we NEED the support, camraderie and mutual respect for our individual choices - not the destructive stuff that forms walls and barriers between us. Websites like this can be a valuable tool for ADVANCING our interests - it's a shame when it's used to maliciously divide us instead. . ;



JIM - one of the unavoidable side effects of increased performance, larger, heavier trucks, greater drivetrain parasitic power drains as with 4-wheek drive, is that fuel mileage WILL go down - in spite of more efficient computerized engine controls - can't beat the laws of physics!



So, yeah, My new '02 Dodge will probably be a couple of MPG off what I was getting on the old '91 - but MAN, I sure get a LOT of great benefits to OFFSET that MPG loss!



I haven't reset the mileage computer since driving my truck off the dealer's lot with 40 miles on it, now have 1800+ miles - half of that towing 7000 lb 5th wheel in Sierras - and sit at overall MPG average of 16+ MPG. We can all wish and dream for more, but that ain't too shabby in a truck that performs as well as these do...

 

[Pit Bull]

Gary thats not bad. I'm getting 15. 1 with the air blasting all of the time, man it is hot here in SW Mo. . That is no towing on a daily driver. But my truck is a 3500 4x4 QC auto with 4. 10 rear end. weighs 7450lbs empty. I'm not complaining, I love this truck and the mileage is not bad for what it is