Competition 12 V Head Flow Bench Numbers

[glhs]

( I asked for stage 3, was charged $700. 00, and recieved stage 1/2, it literly looked like a 12 year old kid with a cartridge roll spend 30 minutes on the whole head. The exhause ports were the only thing that been touched, and they were only ported in for about the 1st inch, the rest of the port, the part of the port that matters was never touched. needless to say I was extreamly ******, and felt like I had been had, but the rest of the head, Ti retainers, springs, and machine work for the fire rings was very nice.

I think for only $700 spent, that's all any shop would give. I think to get what you want would be $3,000+.

I've tried Raymacs # lately and it doesn't work anymore.

 

[bgilbert]

$700, did that include Ti retainers, 60# springs, fire rings, and cutting the grooves in the head? If so, I'd say you got a deal just by my math.

 

[DPS]

we just got some numbers back and 250cfm +- a couple percent depending on the head casting is going to be a good average for a stage 3 head for 12v heads by the guys that do our port work. How does this compare with what you guys are seeing from others?



Josh

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Very good Josh, mine is at 214 on the intake with the manifold still on, that were Randy ran into the "I'm not sure" area for wall thickness.



Jim

 

[crawler]

Ray-Mac moved to a new facility in Burleson and the number was unable to be transfered.



He has five heads going for SMDiesel alone right now. Two for me and three for customers.



He moved to the new facility so that he could accomodate more work , what pushed him was the fact that he wanted to dedicate an entire area just to Cummins development.



~Wes~

 

[glhs]

Newe phone number is... ... ... ... ... ... ?

 

[JTEdieselram]

The $700. 00 was just for the port work. The other stuff was seperate. I ended up spending a little over $2500. 00 for the whole package. I read a comment about $700. 00, and the port job being what any shop would give at that price? take pride in your work guys, I have been around performance heads for years and years. I know some old school guys that will do a set of cast iron chevy/ford heads (8 cylinders total) for that price, and they will actually be nice. The port job that I recived was terrable, There were even marks on the outsides of the port where the gasket seats that looked like the person slipped out of the port and made big gouges, please, I did not say this to offend anybody, I just stated my experiance, and am trying to prevent someone else from getting ripped off. That comment was a blow below the belt, I allready feel bad about getting my money taken, seriously not necessary.

 

[glhs]

Now it's $2500. That's a bit different. :{

 

[HARNESS]

What about just doing the port work and not the polish

 

[HARNESS]

Time is money and that would be half the time

 

[Forrest Nearing]

What about just doing the port work and not the polish

polish usually hurts flow as you lose the boundary layer. but polishing chambers and exhaust ports keeps the heat in the charge and not in the head, and it also stays cleaner, so it can be beneficial.

 

[crawler]

Sorry I slipped on the number part.



The number is 817 568-8822



~Wes~

 

[COMP461]

Rays new number is 817 568 8822; the new facility is developing in to a premier diesel shop. I feel that Ray is really growing fast, and this is a good thing for the diesel world, but with all the growing pains that come with rapid growth, like the phone, and a shop full of work, every job is a hot order to the owner of that project. Ray is a perfectionist and is growing personnel only as fast as he can train each person to do things his way.





The cylinder head air flow development has its own dedicated facility, with a Flowcom equipped Super Flow Pro bench and soon a high pressure flow bench. Ray now has 3 full time cylinder head specialist, and 75 % of their time is spent in research and development on Cummins and Power stroke programs.



Of interest on valve seat angle , you change seat angles to acheave maximum flow Pro Stocker don't run a valve angle of 45; they went past that angle 15 years ago, to 50 to 54 degree seats. The reason for steeper valve angle is you window {hole} is bigger. You and have a bigger port closed by the same size valve. The limit to this is that the valves start to stick in the hole, which is the primary reason we use copper beryllium seats in high valve angle competition gas engines.



Ray and his team spend a lot of time on valve angles back cuts seat angles and all the details in port design that make the difference in a RayMac head, and anything else they work on. I have seen them spent days on the flow bench designing the cutter to cut the seat angles, You have all heard of three angle valve jobs, Ray uses a contoured cutter that gives infinite angles on the valve seat, and maximize air flow This kind of dedication to every detail is why RayMac Cummins heads are in a league of their own with out any close competitor.



On cam design lift is a smaller factor in valve clearance then duration. When I work on cam design ,I concentrate of keeping seat timing {. 005} as short as possible and accelerate the valve off the seat faster achieving maximum lift quicker and having more area under the curve. This shorter timing event retains precious cylinder pressure. I have compared a few big pulling cams, and the results told a big story. The cam in my old truck was 28 degrees shorter at . 005, 8 degrees shorter at . 050 and 3 degrees bigger at . 200. The . 200 number is where the port really starts working, moving air. This short timing is a reason that even with only 14. 6 to 1 compression in Denver my truck didn’t require ether.

 

[Red Stroke]

Well here are some pics of the motor build. There are some pics of the Stage 2 head I went with but the pics could have been better of the head. I have the flow bench numbers but haven't had time to get them scanned in (been working on the truck). Seems PDR numbers are pretty accurate to the flow bench I used. It also appears that Raymac numbers are higher compared to the PDR numbers but, Raymac seems very proud of his stuff like in the price range of a used 94-97 dodge truck for a stage 2/3 head.

Anyone know how to post the pic on this thread I would do that but never can make it work? See link in my sig and go to superduty cummins.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

I know what you are saying about the Cylinder head stuff, there is alot to be had there but head porting and O-ringing is high and even higher is you have to ship it to and from a place.



Above the typing area to the right side of the smily face is the paper clip, click on it and open the window to attach a photo. Make sure that the photo is not too big or it will fail to attach.



Jim

 

[JFaughn]

Did not notice , with all the time & money spent , I did not see that you had the intake cut off to have a better one built .
I'm not doing the competition stuff , but read some about it now & then , it seems that the cast intake is the biggest restriction ?

 

[Jim Fulmer]

it seems that the cast intake is the biggest restriction ?

Nope, it's the small runners! The intake sucks but the runners suck worse! The head is made to cool, not flow air!



With the Cummins head we are back in the 70's with a 202 head on a small block chevy. Maybe we'll grow up someday!



Jim

 

[Red Stroke]

For a street truck I left the intake on, for an all out competition motor it should get removed. Here is the link I forgot to post above with some fresh dyno videos.

http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e228/RedStroke/Superduty Cummins/



Jim how much fuel you pushing? You haved any dyno #s SB only?

 

[mrtwister]

Looks and sounds great. What kind of hp, tq #'s did the truck pull?

 

[Red Stroke]

Well I am going to have to talk to Brady at II my 913 pump doesn't seem to be putting out the fuel it should be? It put down just under 500 on the turbo and 661hp 1400 ft/lb on nitrous. I was expecting more.....