Archived 12 valve torque converter clutch wont

[Riddick]

Need help, My 1997 12 valve Cummins torque converter clutch locked up and won't release. The truck has been parked for about 16 months and had no problems when parked. I drove the truck for about 2 weeks after my return and had no problems, the suddenly the torque converter clutch started locking up and will not release. Sometimes it will release and work good until you shut the engine down and then when you start it again it will lock up and not release. I have pulled the transmission realay and no change. I have cut the orange/black wire on pcm terminal B11 and still no change. Has anyone dealt with this problem before? Any suggestions? I am in Africa and can't take it to a shop.



Thanks,

Terry

 

[tp0d]

sounds like a wiring issue at the trans. get under there with a creeper and go over ALL wiring at the trans, to the computer -very- carefully. . sounds like something rubbed the insulation off

never heard of this issue. . u try unplugging the TPS?

good luck

-j

 

[cerberusiam]

Lockup cluth is likely not the problem. If the clutch was locked you would never get the truck to stay running and drive it. Does it just try to pull thru the brakes and bog the engine at a stop?



Likely problem is the stator sprag is TU and you have a no stall TC.

 

[Riddick]

Thanks for the reply. I will continue to check the wiring

 

[Riddick]

Thanks for the reply. The truck is pure stock with a stock torque converter. When you try to stop with it in gear it just gradually loads up and will kill the engine if you do not put it in neutral. It will not downshift to 1st unless you do it manually. When you put it back in gear after putting it in neutral it jerks hard and then just loads the engine up if you hold the brake and it will die in a few seconds. The strange thing is twice it started acting normal for about 30 minutes then when I shut the engine off and went in the house and came out later it was doing the same thing again. Would the sprag do that? The last time it did this I had cut the orange and black wire from terminal B11 which I thought would keep the torque converter from locking. Thanks again for the response. any further information is greatly appreciated.

 

[cerberusiam]

Thanks for the reply. The truck is pure stock with a stock torque converter. When you try to stop with it in gear it just gradually loads up and will kill the engine if you do not put it in neutral. It will not downshift to 1st unless you do it manually. When you put it back in gear after putting it in neutral it jerks hard and then just loads the engine up if you hold the brake and it will die in a few seconds. The strange thing is twice it started acting normal for about 30 minutes then when I shut the engine off and went in the house and came out later it was doing the same thing again. Would the sprag do that? The last time it did this I had cut the orange and black wire from terminal B11 which I thought would keep the torque converter from locking. Thanks again for the response. any further information is greatly appreciated.

Yes, thats the sprag on the stator hub failing. The rollers in the clutch are rough and not dropping when they are supposed to so the stator free wheels and you have a no stall converter which just loads the engine down until it quits.



If you cut the wire that supplies power to the lockup solenoids then its not a short issue. A short would normally kick the relay out and you would not have OD and usually stuck in 1st gear.



The sprag failing is a typical failure and you have all the symptoms of just that. I would replace the TC, governor solenoid, and transdcuer and likely all your problems will go away.

 

[Riddick]

I think you are correct. Today I disconnected the plug at the transmission and still get the same condition. 2 further questions. I get the same condition whether in reverse or forward. Would the sprag act the same in both directions? Also what is the tranducer? I have a torque converter here in africa and a core transmission I can get the sprag out of. I do not have a new governor solenoid and since I don't know what it is I probably don't have a transducer. Would you try it just changing the sprag and the torque converter?



Thanks again,



I appreciate your help

Terry

 

[cerberusiam]

This is the transducer for governor pressure: A500 42RE A618 46RE 47RE 48RE Transmission governor pressure sensor Transmission solenoids



This is the governor pressure solenoid: A500 42RE 44RE A518 46RE A618 47RE 48RE transmission governor pressure solenoid 4617210





Don't replace with used, always new if needed. You may or may not need them. It depends on shifting quality. On the 3rd gens they last about 40k and then start causing issues.



Yes, the problem will appear in forward or reverse. The engine only spins one way no matter the gear. Reverse is done in the trasn but the converter and stator are still going the same direction.



You have to cut the TC apart with a milling machine and disassemble to get the stator assembly out. The stock assemblies are the problem and you really don't want to reuse one unless you rebuild it also and that is another whole story.



Your best bet is order a TC from builder that has all the upgrades, super duty stator assembly, etc. Yes, shipping is going to hurt but the truck completely refusing to move in the middle of the Serengeti is not something to contemplate with pleasure.



The stator is failing now, the next step will be the truck refuses to move in any gear. Likely by that time it will run metal thru the complete transmission and ruin it.

 

[Riddick]

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking you were talking about the sprag inside the transmission but from what you are saying there is one in the torque converter. I have a new OEM torque converter for a 2000 47 RE here in Cameroon. Is there any reason it would not work in the 97 model? If it will work I can just loosen the transmission and slide it back far enough to put the new converter in and change the fluid and filter and try it. In the meantime I can order the governor and transducer to come in my regular FedEx mail pack net month in case I need them. Hopefully the new converter will last a year until my son comes and can bring a beefed up one in his sea container. I appreciate your help. Please correct me if I have not understood you well.



Thanks again,

Terry

 

[cerberusiam]

Yes, there is a sprag clutch inside the TC on the stator hub assembly in addition to the one in the back of the transmission. They perform exactly the same function, allowing only one way travel under certain conditions.



Should have no issue using the 2000 TC in the 97 unit. The 47RE is pretty much all the same no matter when built.



Good luck and hope that will get you back running again.



What are you doing in Cameroon? Longway from Pineville La?

 

[Riddick]

Thank you again for your help. I had to drive the truck to the airport and meet someone, about 5 miles. After the initial takeoff it came loose and operated fine all the way to the airport. I was there for about 2 hours and returned home still operated fine. Checked it an hour after I got home and it was still free. Very Strange but I will still replace the converter in the next day or two. I am a missionary here in Cameroon. I have been here for the most part of the last 30 years. We have some mobile houses and platform trailers made from 28 ft van trailers and some military trailers that we dropped down onto 16 inch electric brake axles that we use for evanglism and outreach so that is why we have the Dodge diesel to pull them with. We did have 2 of the Dodges and the other one had a beefed up torque converter and a valve body by Sun Coast converters. It was used for most of the work but we sold it about 2 years ago. We don't pull as much as we used to but we still move a trailer every once in a while. I will be watching for another good torque converter.



Thanks again, I appreciate your help



Terry

 

[HHhuntitall]

X2 on what Cerebrusiam says... . The broken sprag basically makes the lockup convertor lock up at all times. It's kinda like a locked up clutch in a standard..... When you say it kills the engine in forward and reverse, I don't know what else it could be... ..... Also, look around stateside for a good torque convertor, such as from Blumenthal's, DTT, or Chrisman's. I'm sure they'd be happy to mail you whatever you need, if you can't find anything else... . these guys build good products at a more reasonable price.



Blumenthal - Automatic Transmissions - Automatic/Truck/Bus

Diesel Torque Converters :: DODGE - High Performance Torque Converters

Diesel Transmission Technology - DTT Performance Diesel Transmission and Power Accessories

 

[Riddick]

Thanks for the confirmation and the links. I appreciate your input.



Have a blessed day,



Terry

 

[Riddick]

I pulled the transmission and replaced the torque converter Saturday. That fixed that problem but now it seems to be in limp mode. If I take off with the shift lever in D it only has 3rd gear. If I pull the lever down to 2 or 1 it takes off in 2 and then when you shift to D it goes to 3rd but no Overdrive. If you put it in Neutral then 1 it will take off in 1st then you can shift to 2nd and drive but still no overdrive. I have checked all connections and cleaned them. Also checked the tps and it seems to be smooth although it has quite a bit of slack in the linkage. Any suggestions. I have a governor and transducer coming. I will try that when they get here.

 

[cerberusiam]

I think your truck has the output shaft speed senosr in the OD unit. Pull it out and clean the end off. They will accumulate crud and sometimes cause limp mode like that. The other pieces are the gov pressure solenoid and transducer that can cause that issue. Good luck.

 

[Riddick]

Cleaned the Output shaft speed sensor. No change. Put a 100ohm resistor in orange wire at PCM to bring voltage down below 5VDC no change. My Governor pressure solenoid and transducer came in and I changed them still no change, Used a friends scan tool and got 3 trouble codes after replacing the Governor Pressure Solenoid and transducer. The codes are P0753 Shift Solenoid A ckt electrical, P0713 trans fluid temp sensor A ckt High Input, and 1763 Gov. Press sensor Hi. If I clear the codes as soon as I start the engine all 3 codes come back. Truck is till in limp mode. Takes off in 3rd gear in drive. Will take off in 2nd gear if you use selector 2 and shift to D and goes ito 3rd. no overdrive. If you put it in neutral and then 1 it will take off in 1st then you can shift to 2nd then D to 3rd but still no overdrive. Anybody got any ideas?

 

[Bob4x4]

Time to get out the service manual and check wiring

 

[cerberusiam]

Might want to replace the whole harness on the VB if you haven't already.



Its not unusual to see that though as the stock transducer and solenoid have been known to be bad out of the box.



Other possibilities are scuffed wires in the harness form the PCM to the transmisison. They can get pinched and rub on things after time and cause issues. Almost have to pull it out and examine carefully.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Cerebrusiam is usually ahead of me... . I did think of one thing... ... Didn't you say you cut the OD wire going to the PCM? What did you ever do with that? It sounds like the lockup switch is locked on.....

 

[Riddick]

Cerebrusiam, I Pulled the harness up into engine compartment where I could see it good. Did not find aany problem there.



HHhuntitall, It was the Lockup solenoid wire that I cut but it has been soldered back to gether. Thanks for the input.



I have ordered another complete solenoid kit this time with the gov. solenoid and transducer and also the od solenoid and lockup solenoid. I read on another post on another site that an open overdrive solenoid would put it into limp mode. I should of checked it with an ohm meter while I had the pan off but I didn't.



thanks again for the help.