12 valvers are lucky

[illflem]

Was working on a '82 GMC gasser today, back from the days when pollution controls were just evolving, the kind with a pump and a maze of spaghetti tubing, a real PITA. Couldn't help but equate it with a 24 valve Cummins. By the sound of changes ahead in pollution controls the current 24 valve is much the same as those ancient gassers. Sure glad I jumped in when I did and bought a 12 valve, sure like the simplicity and dependability of just a good old basic engine. Always thought my 12 valver would be last truck, it may not be, but it will be my last engine, think I'll move it to my next truck.

 

[R.ebel]

I hear you illflem and could'nt agree more. You just can't beat the the simplicity, reliability or Bombality of a 12 valve engine with the P7100 mechanical fuel injection pump

 

[Deezul1]

The choice was new with puter controls or used and correctly valved. No choice at all. Cheaper too.

 

[Todd T]

i think my signature speaks for me here wink wink

 

[PUMPERDUDE]

They always phase out the good stuff. Never fails. I had an 82 Isuzu diesel Pup that would never die. ZERO maintenance. Why don't they make them anymore?I think the 12 v is in a class by itself. Nothing else comes close. This beauty does have one wart however. Its a shame the KDP slipped by Cummins. Its gonna take out a lot of good high milage engines.

BTW, my Ram has just a little more power than my ole Pup. :-laf :-laf

 

[LarryB]

12 Valves are boring!



Add injectors, plate, gov springs, air filter. Remove stock muffler/cat. Readjust timing. do the KDP jig thing. Fiddle a little with the AFC. = 350+ dependable long lasting low maintenance HP, and great mileage.



No wonder they changed it.



Yawnnnnn.....

 

[Joe G.]

12 valves are kind of dumb too. My '95 he don't speaka da computereze too well.

 

[Pthomas]

no electronics class!

ahhhhhh.

I fix solid state circut,intermitant,glitch crap all day long! im glad its out there (job security)

But i refuse to own a computer controled vehicle of any kind. never did, never will.

all moving parts control our 12v's and i can drive with much more confidence of not breaking down and without having to have a bunch of extra parts in the trunk! Someone up there was looking out for me when i needed a dependable strong tow vehicle!

p. s. i do know my truck has a computer even OBD,

but i could still run it with out any of that in use!

 

[TPCDrafting]

Thanks for all the comfort reading guys. Didn't know what I was getting into when I bought my '98. At first I thought I should'a held out for the 24 valve, now I'm glad I didn't. Surprised I found this one when I did. (bought in may '00) I'm new around here and haven't done anything about this KDP thing yet. Dont' even know where on the motor to look. I'll surf around a bit and find more info...

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Hey Larry,

if I do what you said, can I please have another 350 hp? My poor old Ram really needs it

 

[LarryB]

NO! Joe, bad boy!



You have too much already. Someone could get hurt. :-laf

 

[MikeR]

Originally posted by illflem

By the sound of changes ahead in pollution controls the current 24 valve is much the same as those ancient gassers.

Sorry, disagree, it's nothing near the same. We don't have pumps and "spaghetti" that those gassers did. At least our electronics work for us as one system... with a scan-tool, the electronics tell us what has or hasn't failed far faster than anyone with a mechanical engine doing diagnosis. I don't know or have ever heard of anyone having an electronics failure.

C'mon guys, engine electronics isn't new, what we have is the same crap that has been used for the last 25 or so years, and all of you have been driving them too. I bet you guys send your wives' down the road in electronic controlled cars.



The only thing we (24v'ers) have any real concern for is the electric lift pumps... not the engine electronics. The only problem I've had (and many 24v owners) is having failing lift pumps, which isn't an "electronics" problem at all, and this is on a 24v engine that has been running very reliably for the last 62,000mi with 400+ hp.

I have one of each, and they both have given me reliable service. I would sell my 24v in favor of a 215hp-12v ONLY because the 7100 pump is capable of more than this VP44, not because of electronics.



Oh, please... if what is implied in the thread where any true, then the guys at the local RV and diesel shop would never have any records of 7100's ever being replaced, would they.



-Mike

 

[Pthomas]

ouch....?

yep, for over 17 years ive been fixin computer related faults and glitches,and yes it can be a pleasure to diagnose faults with scan tools, snapshots,fault codes and the good old data stream... ... 01010001000101... . BUT!!!!

im very happy my 12v DOES NOT require any of that !

especially the OPTIC sensor those lousy stanadyne pumps went to with the drive by wire systems!

beter watch out for those strong MAGNETS!

 

[Steve Campbell]

"Watch out for those magnets"

Ptomas, could you expand on that a little? I do not want to create any unnecessary problems for myself.



Improperly valved posting in the properly valved forum!

Just because I have too many valves does it make me a lesser person? I joined up and became "less than I could have been"?

 

[illflem]

Was wondering when a over-valver was going to step in.



Mike, I didn't mean to imply that the 24s have pumps or hoses, more that they were at the same beginning phases of pollution control as the spaghetti filled gassers and are being phased out after a short run. The 12 extra valves are a good thing, it's the pumps and electronics that cause problems. The 12 valve Cummins was around long before Dodge dreamed of using them. You don't see 24 valves in farm or industrial equipment where reliability and in the field repairlibility counts, the 12 is still available for that. It's still early but I doubt if you'll ever see a million mile 24 valve.

 

[Pthomas]

12v,24v

Its not the amount of valves that make me more comfortable with the reliability ,its the mechanical pumps vs the electronic controled pumps. heck 24 valves get more air in and more out!!!

Steve,i wouldnt worry about your average door magnets but large strong magnets produce a strong field and i wouldnt want them any where near a computer/solid state circut controlers. you would have to try and see for youself what the results would be ... . if you dare

 

[MikeR]

You don't see 24 valves in farm or industrial equipment where reliability and in the field repairlibility counts, the 12 is still available for that. It's still early but I doubt if you'll ever see a million mile 24 valve.

On the contrary. The VP44 has been reported showing up in farm tractors over the last year.



Yes, the 24v is still relatively new, but I don't see why it cannot make it to 1 million miles either. It has the same rugged and reliable components built into the basic block and head assemblies. And exactly how many 12v's have we seen make it to a million anyway?? Only a hand full, and while incredible, only a few had their original injection pumps. Let's be real, the odds are very high that a 12v will have to replace the injection pump several times before it reaches 1 million anyway. A 24v might have to replace 2 pumps for every one 12v pump, but at half the price for a VP pump, I don't see where it could be cheaper over X amount of miles.



You guys keep saying "electronic problems"... well where are they?! I have never seen anyone on any board with a 24v ever have an electronic ecm failure. A bad engine sensor maybe, which also happens to the 12v, but the trucks still run for for the most part. The only repeated problem we seem to have is a $140 dollar fuel pump. I'd really like to know of these "problems" you guys talk about. Pumps and electronics are two different things.



I don't mind stepping up to bat and defending the 24v. Like I said, mine (as well as all of the NW Bombers) has been very reliable and efficient, and has stood up to the abuse I put through it and has never left me stranded.



Honestly, you wanna see electronics problems, buy a Honda. Working for a Honda dealer I see multiple common ignition and ecm failures every single day. Now that's an electronics problem.



-Mike

 

[Turbo Thom]

Good gracious:

24V's don't need any defense. They're Cummins, right. We all know why they have 12 more than us. I bought a 12V cause' in 1996 that's all I could get. If there had been 32 valves , I would have gotten them. Did I know any better? NO. I got a 12 and will run it till it croaks. If that happens I will get the wife something to drive and take he truck away. After that, it will be time for me to meet my maker. I sure hope he likes Cummins. I just know that's what they drive up there.



. . Preston. .

 

[LarryB]

Ahh yess, I don't like anything I don't have! If I did, I would have it.



Sometimes we just like a good debate! I'm guilty as anyone of that. It's what makes this board so addicting and fun.

 

[RBrunson]

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