Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 12v Vs. 24v

[TDiston]

I Have Right Now A 96 That I Love 194000 And Still Strong. A Tech And I Were Talking Along The Lines Of Performance And I Had Mentioned That I Wanted A 98 12v For The Quad Cab But To Keep The 12v. Then The Discussion Went To Which Can Produde The More Power( But Also For The Most Power That I Can Still Play With At Home)? So Help Me Out Give Me Reasons Of Both. Which You Have Ones Have You Played And Also Which Is Producing More Power? If You Have Prices Give Me Some, Right Know I Think 24v Is More Expensive To Turn Up From My Research?????

 

[SRadke]

The strongest combo I know of is a P pump conversion on a 24 valve. Both have attributes but the 12 valves are definitley easy/cheap to tweek and you don't have to worry about keeping the ECM happy. I made the jump from 12 valve to common rail but I'd like to have the ol 96 back to play with. Should have kept it.



-Scott

 

[pwerwagn]

...

check out the power vs. $$$ thread in this forum. a little bit of info.

 

[TDiston]

From What I Have Seen When I Did The Plate And The Hybrid 35 Turbo And All The Injectors It Seams Like You Say You Don't Have To Keep Any Computers Happy. The Bang For The Buck Is Definitely There. How Big Of ***** Was It To Do The Conversion I Only Know A Little On Theat But Have Heard A Alot? The Only Reason I Ask Is There Is A Kid In Our Town Who Put The Hs40 On His With 2 Stage Injectors And The Comp Box From Edge>>>it Runs. So Tell Me About The Conversion. Thanks For You Guys Time.

 

[Hammer]

TD. .

If your 96 is a 5spd truck then you will not need to step up to the 98 as the 96,97 and 98 5spds were all rated and equipped with the same p-pump. Now,wanting the Quad cab option I could understand for desire to step up. Of all the trucks I have seen,at any of the dyno meets we have done or been to,the 12v p-pump trucks have out performed the newer electronic trucks.



The easiest way to sum up the main difference in these trucks and which is better to B. O. M. B. is to ask yourself this question and answer it.....



"Do I like the ability of turning down my trucks power level in bad weather to help enhance traction and drivability or would I rather control my trucks drivability in bad weather by using the smaller lever left of the shifter(providing you have one)?. "



There in fact lies the true difference between the newer electronic trucks vs the old reliable P-Pumped 12valvers. When weather and road conditions are questionable you may turn down or shut off most all of the performance with a flip of a switch in the newer 24valvers,with a tuned P-Pump 12valver you adjust by using the 4wheel drive lever(if you have one) OR be alot gentler with the throttle. A tuned 12valve can be a hand full at times on questionable road surfaces. My choice is the 12v and always will be. Hope this helps..... Andy

 

[SRadke]

I agree with Hammer. The 24 valve head has an inherant design strength in it;s ability to flow more air but the 12 valves can still flow A LOT of air when properly tuned. If all you're looking to do is show this other guy a thing or two stick the the 12 valve, drop a coin on a big turbo, set of 370's, gov spring kit, and a 0 plate and you'll have power to give. There are plenty of guys on this board with mods similar to those listed above making over 500 hp. Like Hammer said if you don't need the QC, stick with what you've got. The P-pump conversions are really cost prohibitive.



-Scott

 

[Snow man]

Id stay with what you've got the 12V is the best,IMO. I'd stay away from the p pump conversion on a 24V. there arent a lot out there,the ones making big power arent talking or sharing info,so tuning is tough and teadious,your basically on your own. the valve springs,guides,and seats all stink on a 24V. The 12V head fully ported can outflow the fully ported 24V head anyday,the only advantage is the central injector on the 24V head. Speaking of injectors, you'd need custom pop off pressures to get the most out of them,and again no ones talking,so you'd be on your own as far as injectors go. Stick with a full 12V enjoy the better breathing,hi rpms without valve float,and easy to find . proven performance parts,and long lasting valve guides/seats.

 

[Animal]

Flow Specs.

The 12V head fully ported can outflow the fully ported 24V head anyday.

Not according to Pier's flow specs.



http://www.piersdiesel.com/DodgePortedHead.htm

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Don't worry about those flow specs. The 12 valve head rules for max hp. No one has gotten 800 hp from a 24 valve on #2 only, single turbo.

 

[RabidRam]

Don't worry about those flow specs. The 12 valve head rules for max hp. No one has gotten 800 hp from a 24 valve on #2 only, single turbo.

And they have with a 12 valve? That's freakin' awesome! Whose truck?



Dave

 

[Joe G.]

It's Joe's old sickly white truck before he detuned it.

 

[Hammer]

Id stay with what you've got the 12V is the best,IMO. I'd stay away from the p pump conversion on a 24V. there arent a lot out there,the ones making big power arent talking or sharing info,so tuning is tough and teadious,your basically on your own. the valve springs,guides,and seats all stink on a 24V.

John. .

I agree completely with you here on this. The guys who have done the P-Pump conversion to their 24 valvers all have been very silent in their tuning and what parts they do run to attain the power levels achieved. It kinda reminds me of the Mopar SS/AA hemi crowd that are always playing games like this. Everyone wants to be the "owner" who has the biggest,fastest and most reliable ride,wll the while not thinking of the others who are in the same camp. They never remember its us against them,not us against us... LOL.

Don't worry about those flow specs. The 12 valve head rules for max hp. No one has gotten 800 hp from a 24 valve on #2 only, single turbo.

Man this hurts early in the morning. .

I have to agree with Joe D,dddoooooooohhhhhh.....

Of all the known posted info,on any of the diesel sites frequented by most all of us,there is NO KNOWN posted or spoke of 24 valve,single turbo,VP equipped truck to ever break the 800hp mark with being drug equipped. After doing some research this morning,before flapping my piehole,very few 24 valve,VP equipped,single charger have broken the 600hp mark on fuel alone. There have been a few to do over 700hp with a single charger,drugs and the stock VP pump. Throw in a few select P-Pumped,drug equipped,twins driven 24 valvers to make 700hp or more(Jetpilots 886hp Slick Black Bottle Rocket is still the top number. ) and you have a very small list of 24 valvers over 600hp period. There are ALOT of VP equipped 24 valvers inbetween 400 and 600 hp and include plain old, flat nasty rides,Snow Man's is the perfect example of that.



So again,

Its comes back to this question... .

"Do you want the questionable weather drivability of the tuned 24 valver or the both hands on the wheel ,questionable weather drivability of a tuned 12valver?. This to me is still the one question owners need to ask themselves,other than if they really desire a new truck... ... ... ... ... Andy

 

[TSterken]

I have a 12v and the other tech at work has the 24v. I like the 24v. You can run it in stock mode when your just drive around and when you need the power just turn it up. The 12v you got the power all the time. Fun but cost.

 

[Joe G.]

I have a 12v and the other tech at work has the 24v. I like the 24v. You can run it in stock mode when your just drive around and when you need the power just turn it up. The 12v you got the power all the time. Fun but cost.

A diesel is not like a gasser. Everything I have done to increase power on my '95 has actually helped with MPG. So I have the power when I want it and lower cost to operate when I don't have my foot in it.

 

[csevers]

There is a white 24V single charger truck that is running on the 300 ft track every weekend that runs stronger than most 12v's and even some twined 12v engines. I would say that the 24v engine is the best for the most power.



C

 

[tgrfan2]

At the time I bought our 98 12V QC I could have gotten a used 2000 CTD QC with similar miles for about the same money. I drive a 2000 SO automatic for work and it is a good truck but not like the 12V. I have had a #6 plate on my 95 automatic for 90K and for 30K on the 98. I am thinking of switching the 98 to a #10 and GSK to get some more rpms. No doubt for reliability and cost/ hp the 12V can't be beat.

My wife blew the doors off a PSD Excursion yesterday and she said he was making all kinds of smoke and she hardly had to get on the old 98 and passed him with no smoke!

She loves to show up those PSD's.

 

[RonA]

I wonder why you guys keep bringing this up. 12 valves are great, 24 sucks. I have a feeling that the only reason why Joe D. and Jim F. made so much horsepower with their 12 valve trucks is because that is what they were working on. If you locked either one of them up in the garage for the winter with a 24 valve, every one would be saying " man those 24 valve trucks are the best" because come spring time there would be a 24 valve kick butt truck pulling out of their garages. Just hope neither one gets snowed in for the winter at a ford dealership.

RonA