12V vs. 24V

[srawleigh]

I am looking for opinions on 12V vs. 24V trucks. I am posting this on both the 12V and 24V sites to get both opinions.



I will shortly be in the market for a used Dodge TD. I am trying to decide on 12V or 24V engines. I have owned a 94 12V previously and it gave me flawless service - though it was a little weak on HP and Torque. I plan to mildly BOMB my acquired truck (I know everyone says this), but I really do not tow anything of significance. The heaviest load this will see will be 6-7K boat only periodically.



I am looking for a high reliability truck that I do not spend my weekends "tinkering" with or that it spends time in the shop. If this happens the other half will lose patience quickly and my hope of owning a Cummins again will be more grief than I am willing to deal with. I am religious with maintenance and I do not see that this is an issue, but my wife would have a problem with the fuel pump crapping out on our weekend drives to the lake (i. e. 24V).



What I need help on is the following:



Assume that I will buy a manual transmission, 4WD, run 255 85R-16 tires (33in), extended cab truck that will be driven in East Coast Mountains for taking the family and our stuff to our cabin. If it is a 12V it will be a 96-98, which I think are the best years. If it is a 24V, it will be what ever is the best that is available when I buy.



What do you consider the advantages of the 12V over the 24V? I read a lot of issues with the 24V fuel pumps. 12V do not have this issue. I do like the Quad cab feature of the 24V. This convenience may be worth a lot.



5-speed or 6-speed? I see a lot of 6-speed for sale? I can only assume that they are not happy with the shifting problems of the transmission. Why else would someone sell a new cummins truck? 5-speeds have their own issues as well with 5TH gear durability at lower RPMs, which is why I would be concerned with 3. 54 gears and 33in tires.



What do you recommend for gears? 3. 54 or 4. 10? I had 4. 10 on my 94 with an Automatic. These seemed a little steep for me even with 33in tires. Are the 3. 54 enough? DC finally figured out that 3. 73s are perfect, now that they are available on Gen3 trucks.



The 12V seemed quite peaky to me in in torque and HP production. How are the 24V compared to the 12V? I am not interested in peak HP or Tourque, but usable performance over a broad range of RPMs.



I believe the best way to add performance to a 12V is through a plate change in the fuel pump. What are the impacts of this on performance?



I live in MD with pretty stringent emissions laws. Diesels where I live must be tested every two years - just like the gassers. How do I address emissions like opacity with a Edge, VA or other box on the truck? Does anyone else have this issue? They actually drive these vehicles on treadmills over a simulated road course with the emissions sniffer hooked up to the exhasut. :--)



Has anyone owned both a 12V and 24V Cummins? What years were they? I would like your opinions on both. Good and bad.



This will be a big opportunity to get my Cummins back and I don't want to hear the wife telling me "I told you so" for the next ten years or longer. I have been planning this for a while and I still have a little time left before I pull the trigger. I just want to make sure that it is on target.



I do appreciate any feedback that you can provide. Thanks.

 

[BCFAST]

Just opinions here...

The 24v is a higher-revving motor, thus you'd probably want the 4:10. The 12v has better low-end grunt and wont spin as fast, so the 3. 54 would work better. Bombing is easier with the computer trucks, and cheaper with the mechanical trucks. I chose what I did because of proven reliability. Check my sig. and know that I get between 21 and 23. 5 mpg all the time.

 

[Don M]

there are some 12 valve quad cabs out there. Not a bunch tough.

98. 5 I believe. Wish I had one myself.



Don~

 

[Bhale]

srawleigh



I live in Baltiome Co. (Cockeysville) and have owned my '96 since new. I've never had problems with either the engine or drivetrain untill just recently. My transmission is slipping (135K mile) and ATS will be shipping me their complete trans/TC combo. I have no experience with the newer 24v but can say that my 12v has never let me down. I tow/haul about 50k of the 135k miles on the truck. (10' slide-in Lance camper ~3000lbs and a 17" Boston Whaler ~ 2000lbs)



Also, i've never had to do the emmissions thing with mine. Perhaps there is a cut off date you should figure into your decision.

 

[Briar Hopper]

My 24 valve 2001 has been maintenance-intensive. Most of it having NOTHING to do with B. O. M. B. modifications.

The 12 is more fun for diesel sports, but the 24 can hold it's own. If SHE doesn't like you working on the truck, get a 24, with an extended warranty.

 

[srawleigh]

Briar,



You nailed it. SHE does not want me to "waste" her time with the truck. Personally, my kids and I would love to spend our time in the garage tinkering with the the truck.



I even have my 3 year old able to recognize different trucks and which are diesel.



Steve

 

[RottnDogue]

12 VALVE !



OK so I am Biased, but you asked.



Darren

 

[Briar Hopper]

Oh, a couple more points to make, srawleigh... . for the 24 valves, TST has a "box" certified as emissions-compatible. You might want to check into that. Also, an EZ Edge is instantly removeable, remove it before going in for an emissions test. (I doubt it would set off any violations, except perhaps on the highest setting)

Beg to differ with my friend BCFAST, but from my experience, the 3. 54 rear ratio is definitely enough, even with tall tires... I have friends with the 4. 10 that HATE them...

There are several solutions to the lift pump issue on the 24's. A pusher pump, at a low price, can quickly and easily be added at the tank.

Some of these trucks, especially my 2001 one-ton, have major steering problems. Try before you buy, of course. Check for a bad track bar by laying on the ground as someone else turns the steering wheel from side to side. If the end of the bar moves, and the truck has high miles, you'll need to spend some $$$ on getting it fixed, and other steering components are likely worn, too. Not a big deal, but you'd be surprised how few shops are competent enough to handle that kind of repair.

No offense, bud, but I'd rather have a truck with steering problems than a wife that won't let me mess with the truck whenever I felt like it. Maybe that's why I'm still single.

One of my TDR friends here in Kentucky, his wife loves the Cummins Dodge so much, it's HER daily driver, while he drives something else to work. Some guys are lucky, I guess. And she wants me to help him BOMB the truck !

 

[Mike Ellis]

I weighed the pros and cons of both for a long time before purchasing, came VERY close to buying a new 24V HO 6 speed but after looking at the delta in performance over the 12V vs the price of a good used 12V I couldn't justify it at the time.



I really liked the 12V engines having the mechanical pump with oil lube, reliable and long-lasting plus you can burn different alternative fuels in a pinch. 24V HO is awful nice, don't need a cat and the engine is improved in several ways but you get the extra computer overhead - good for BOMBing, but another set of components to fail also. Have to admit test driving a 24V HO 6-speed left me grinning for a loooonng time.



Don't know about your area, but I have known a few people around here who have traded off their 6-speed HO trucks. They did so either to (a) buy a Duramax or (b) buy a Ford crew cab for the extra space. Haven't heard of anybody getting rid of them because they dislike or have had too many problems with the truck. Salesmen on the lots here have told me much the same story to explain the trade-ins, also more repos than normal in the aftermath of 9/11/01.

 

[Hammer]

The great which is better debate,,The easiest way to sum this up for you Steve is by you answering these questions to yourself-"How much do I want to spend for my next truck and do I want the warranty or not??",,Keep this in mind as you decide which path to go down,remember mods void warranty and when you accept this path you'll need to accept the concequences that go along with it,,12 valvers are easier to mod but as the 24 valve market continues to boom now aftermarket performance equipment is almost easier to get now than for the older motors and as easy to install,,Sticks are a preference deal,some like the 5 spd some like the 6 spd's,they are both designed for specfic purposes,6 spds tow nicer due to the extra gear,,You are about an hour south of me and if you want some honest answers call TDR and M-D TDR member Diesel Dale(Dale Heiges) up at Continental Motors in Dallastown,PA,,He'll give you some answers to questions you have,,His business number is. . (800)249-3003 or (717)244-4730,,Hope you find what you seek... ... Andy

 

[LarryB]

You only need to work on a 12valve if you want to. Also, yes, 98. 5 4drs are hard to find but worth it. Just went through this with a biz partner. We found him a 98. 5, half the price of new, depreciates less also. He's happy as a clam at high tide.

 

[DavidTD]

Tough Choice

I agree with Briar on the flexability of the 24v power. My 98 3500 24v has been a wonderful truck and is my wife's daily driver.



I just bought a hard to find 98 2500 12v for my daily driver with the intention of turning up power.



Trucks are the same, motors are different. 12v is sluggish with the auto and stock power but awesome turned up. 24v is peppier stock and likes to rev.



My 3500 has 4:10's and 5 speed and Penny loves it. Towing about 2300 rpm is 75 mph and that is perfect. The 2500 has 3. 54's and with the 4k spring kit, the top end is just plain awesome!!! :--)



Good Luck.