13 quarts in a 12 quarts crankcase

[JordanB]

I was changing my oil Saturday morning and my oil filter end cap wrench would not fit properly; it never has, but this time - not a chance! After struggling with the ill-fitting wrench for about an hour, I decided to go to the local quick-lube. I'd already drained the oil out of the crankcase into my 3 gallon wash bucket which doesn't hold much more than about 3 gallons and 1 oz. of oil, but somehow I managed to pour the oil back into the engine without spilling it all over the engine or myself.

So I loaded my 3 gallons of Valvoline Premium Blue and Fleetguard filter and headed to the quick-lube. They initially told me about $34 to change the oil and filter... using my materials. Ok, not my idea of great deal, but I think to myself, "What the hey, I'm not in the mood to argue, and I just spent two hours doing a 15 minute job and I didn't even finish the darn thing!" The grease monkey (no offense to true mechanical technicians) takes my truck back and I go into the lobby to wait, and said monkey comes back in. He was mistaken quoting me $34 after talking to the head monkey and the new price is now about $55 - still using my materials. About 60 seconds later I'm heading down the road looking for a new quick-lube.

About 300 feet down the road I pull into my tire shop that we've used recently and they actually weren't too busy which is why I hadn't gone there in the first place. My bad. So they'll change the oil for $11. 50. Happy me - until they finish. Which gets us to the point of this thread. I suppose the grease monkey there decides the Cummins engineers' request that 12 quarts of oil be used in the 5. 9 engine is just a guideline based on his minute and a half wait between pouring the oil in and checking the dipstick level. He then proceeds to add another quart of Rotella (a fine brand, by the way) to my 12 quarts of Valvoline. After I inform them that 12 quarts is the proper amount, that I don't mix my oils, and that this doesn't make me a happy camper, they have a pow-wow and say they had a "misunderstanding" and 13 quarts were not added - they only believed it was needed. Whatever. I checked the level this morning and I believe they did add 13 quarts because, "Surprise!", my oil level is above the "safe" level by a small amount.

So here are my questions: Can the 5. 9 handle an extra quart without causing damage to the engine? How critical is it that you don't mix the brands of oil? I don't know if they used 15W-40 Rotella. I'm going to pick up some more Valvoline and a filter tomorrow anyway. Sorry for the long story but I needed to vent.

 

[tempforce]

my last 4 oil changes, at different dealers. had 12 quarts on the work order. but only the most recent oil change, was it not over full. could be, it was due to the fact that i was going to file a service complaint that my truck had the wrong dipstick, or fuel in the oil. the only dipstick was the service personnel at the prior 3 servicings.

from now on, i will be telling them not to over fill. as they will be draining the truck and adding the proper amount or be testing the oil for fuel. every time i find it over full. i have only used one, non dealership service facility.

can't wait until i have a place i can do my own work again.

cc

 

[LRutigliano]

I was changing my oil Saturday morning and my oil filter end cap wrench would not fit properly; it never has, but this time - not a chance! After struggling with the ill-fitting wrench for about an hour, I decided to go to the local quick-lube. I'd already drained the oil out of the crankcase into my 3 gallon wash bucket which doesn't hold much more than about 3 gallons and 1 oz. of oil, but somehow I managed to pour the oil back into the engine without spilling it all over the engine or myself.

So I loaded my 3 gallons of Valvoline Premium Blue and Fleetguard filter and headed to the quick-lube. They initially told me about $34 to change the oil and filter... using my materials. Ok, not my idea of great deal, but I think to myself, "What the hey, I'm not in the mood to argue, and I just spent two hours doing a 15 minute job and I didn't even finish the darn thing!" The grease monkey (no offense to true mechanical technicians) takes my truck back and I go into the lobby to wait, and said monkey comes back in. He was mistaken quoting me $34 after talking to the head monkey and the new price is now about $55 - still using my materials. About 60 seconds later I'm heading down the road looking for a new quick-lube.

About 300 feet down the road I pull into my tire shop that we've used recently and they actually weren't too busy which is why I hadn't gone there in the first place. My bad. So they'll change the oil for $11. 50. Happy me - until they finish. Which gets us to the point of this thread. I suppose the grease monkey there decides the Cummins engineers' request that 12 quarts of oil be used in the 5. 9 engine is just a guideline based on his minute and a half wait between pouring the oil in and checking the dipstick level. He then proceeds to add another quart of Rotella (a fine brand, by the way) to my 12 quarts of Valvoline. After I inform them that 12 quarts is the proper amount, that I don't mix my oils, and that this doesn't make me a happy camper, they have a pow-wow and say they had a "misunderstanding" and 13 quarts were not added - they only believed it was needed. Whatever. I checked the level this morning and I believe they did add 13 quarts because, "Surprise!", my oil level is above the "safe" level by a small amount.

So here are my questions: Can the 5. 9 handle an extra quart without causing damage to the engine? How critical is it that you don't mix the brands of oil? I don't know if they used 15W-40 Rotella. I'm going to pick up some more Valvoline and a filter tomorrow anyway. Sorry for the long story but I needed to vent.

1) Yes, overfill is bad for your engine because it can aerate the oil due to the crankshaft splashing in the oil sump and then lower your oil pressure. Loosen your drain plug and drain out 1 qt.



2) Mixing oil brands is not a big deal as long as the viscosity is the same and they are both diesel engine oils.



3) Go to the auto parts store and get yourself an oil filter strap wrench (4" dia) with a 3/8" square socket hole in it instead of a lever arm. Use a long extension and your ratchet to remove the filter from below. Super easy. I have never had good success with the filter end cap wrenches.



4) Never ever go to a jiffy lube type place with your truck...



5) If it were my truck, I would start over and replace the filter and oil b/c based on your experience, there is no way to be sure what they did.



6) Make sure you fill the oil filter with oil before installation. I bet the Jiffy Lube place didn't do this... .



Hope this helps...

 

[Bernie]

My truck seems to also need 13 quarts to put the oil to the top of the full mark on the dipstick. I use about a quart every 3000 miles. Right now I am adding a quart at 3000, and changing at 6000. Mostly highway miles uploaded. I am using the Valvoline Cummins oil.



I have to agree, avoid the quick oil change places. Find a real shop and have them change it. Out of necessity I used a quick lube style place once, provided my own oil and filter, and still had a problem.



Knowing my truck wants 13 quarts, I had 4 gallons of the Valvoline oil and a filter. I explained to the kid at the counter, and they proceeded to change my oil. When it was done, I went and got a slice of pizza, and as I left I decided to check to see if the 3 quarts remaining was upright in the bed and going to spill as I left the plaza. Glad I did, because the last 3 quarts of the oil wasn't in the back of the truck, it was in my crankcase. They put 4 gallons in it, and appartnly never checked the stick.



I'm glad I only drove about 2 miles round trip with the overfilled crankcase. It was also at slow speed. If I hadn't decided to get a slice of pie and just got back on the highway, I wouldn't have discovered it for a few hundred miles of highway speed driving.

 

[odinjunior]

6) Make sure you fill the oil filter with oil before installation. I bet the Jiffy Lube place didn't do this... .



What is the purpose of filling the oil filter before installation? Is it required?



All of the reasons stated above are why I have the Femco drain in my pan. .

The drain tube allows me to put the oil into a container with no mess. .

 

[rscurtis]

7) Make sure you can loosen the filter before you drain the oil.

 

[Motorhead]

6) Make sure you fill the oil filter with oil before installation. I bet the Jiffy Lube place didn't do this... .

What is the purpose of filling the oil filter before installation? Is it required?

All of the reasons stated above are why I have the Femco drain in my pan. .
The drain tube allows me to put the oil into a container with no mess. .

The purpose of pre-filling the filter in so when you start the engine, the oil circulation is immediate instead of the oil pump having to fill the filter first.

 

[rbattelle]

"Surprise!", my oil level is above the "safe" level by a small amount.

What's a "small amount"? 1/4" - don't sweat it. 1/2" - that's bad.

2) Mixing oil brands is not a big deal as long as the viscosity is the same and they are both diesel engine oils.

At this very moment, I have 1 gallon of Rotella, 1 gallon of Delo 400, and 1 gallon of Delvac 1300 in my crankcase.

Ryan

 

[Wingate]

Its never a good idea to run any engine overfull of engine oil. It can cause oil areation which can cause pump cavitation and low engine oil pressure. The air getting into the the system can cause cavitation errosion on the rod and main bearings. All of this is sometimes attributed to the crankshaft fillets hitting the high oil level... I have actually seen a crankshaft that was snapped into two pieces from this... . it ain't pretty. . !!!

Personally, I would rather run mine as close to the minimum safe zone... . Typically, when I change the oil, I fill the filter first, then dump the remaining 3 gallons in it and run it the complete service cycle. I do NOT top off... IMHO there is no need to keep it way up the safe zone or at full. I would rather run one 2-3 quarts low that 1 quart over.

 

[macdaddy]

Been running 3+1 since the first oil change. Three gallons plus one quart. 13 qts takes it to just below the top of the "etched" area of the dip stick.



I checked with cummins regarding this over 5 years ago. This has been discussed at length here before. It is perfectly fine to do this.



Mac

 

[MVenditti]

not recommended to fill filter, could cause engine failure if any piece of foil or debris gets in filter.

 

[JordanB]

13 qts. takes my oil level to about 1/4" (maybe a bit less) above the etched "safe" mark. I appreciate all of the help so far!

 

[rbattelle]

not recommended to fill filter, could cause engine failure if any piece of foil or debris gets in filter.

I respectfully disagree - the filter must always be filled during an oil change. Just use a funnel with a strainer.

Ryan

 

[Jim W]

not recommended to fill filter, could cause engine failure if any piece of foil or debris gets in filter.

Have You read your owners manual ?? I did and I follow this and all the recommendations in the O and M guide.

Just my $0. 02

 

[NavyDood]

Two things.

1. If you are one of those ppl that worry something might get in the filter from prefilling it, then fill it through the smaller holes. They are the supply holes. The big hole in the middle is the return. I have been prefilling filters for the past 35 years on any oil change I have done. Never an issue.

2. Save yourself any grief down the road and get a cam action filter wrench. All your worries are gone. The harder you have to turn the tighter the grip gets.

#ad

 

[DanSullivan]

That filter wrench looks nice, where do you by one?

 

[MChildress]

I have always filled vertical mounted oil filters with oil why deprive the engine of oil at the most crucial time start up. I make sure I don't put trash in the filter. 40 yrs and no problems trucks,tractors,cars,and everything else we have had with oil filters.



It takes a while for the oil to reach the oil pan when filling. People that dont know will dump 3 gallons in the engine and immediately check the dip stick which will always show low because all the oil is not down there yet. Then they add another quart then check again and by this time the oil is starting to come up the stick to the full line. Check again later and she shows a qt over full. This was talked about back in 03 and 04 and Cummins said no problem with just a qt over.

 

[NavyDood]

Do a google search for "cam-action filter wrench". I got mine from Amsoil.

 

[MVenditti]

Filling is good if your careful but Cummins looked into a number or engine failures and the cause was small debris that plugged a small oil hole which destroyed the engine. If you warm the engine then change the oil the parts will still have an oil coating. The oil pressure comes up quickly, no worse than starting a cold engine in the morning. IMO better safe than sorry. In the lifetime of the truck how many times will you change the oil anyway?????

 

[MChildress]

It is a little worse it has to fill the filter before it starts circulating. But like you said just have to be careful.