15W-40 in everything?

[Ncostello]

I've "got into it" with some folks where I work. Our fleet consists of 30 newer International Tandem snowplow trucks, Cat backhoes, trackhoes and various other diesel powered machines.



The fleet also has about 10 gas powered light vehicles like F150's, C1500's and my Ram 1500 4x4.



The maint. shop here insists on using 15W-40 in everything. I argue that the light duty vehicles need whats recommended for them... especially since its cold out right now.



My feelings are that the 15W-40's of today have additives that are probably "too much" for modern gasser emissions systems and the heavier weight oil is wasting gas and making flow harder when its cold.



All unnecessary just cause someone is too lazy to order a drum of 5W-30 car oil for the light vehicles. I've also heard that it makes it easier since there is only one to choose from. Bull. Then what keeps them from putting 85W-140 gear oil in crankcases??? Its on the hose rack too!! Or even washer fluid???



My argument back is... if 15W-40 is fine for a car that says 5W-30 everywhere on it... . then lets use API 5W-30 in the DT engines on the trucks. Shouldn't make a difference right???



If 15W-40 is so great for everything... and mechanics everywhere do this in fleets... as I'm told... then maybe someone should tell the engineers at car companies so they'll quit wasting time telling us what to use in engines they designed. Everything will be 15W-40 and Autozone and Napa and everyone can quit carrying 10W-30, 5W-20, etc. Chevy can quit using Mobil-1 in new vettes and just Delvac 15W-40. Or am I wrong?



I believe 15W-40 is for HD engines. And it has a place. Just not in every single vehicle out there.

 

[Ncostello]

And FWIW... I did notice that my 06 Ram 1500 4. 7L gasser cranked over about twice as fast when I drained the 15W-40 and put it 5W-30 Valvoline.



The oil pressure gauge comes up alot faster on those 10 degree mornings. I feel more comfortable using whats recommended.

 

[JFaughn]

The 5W-30 , is mostly for millage laws , not good lube for eng .
The manufactures get it at both ends , the 5W passes the law & makes for more repairs .
I use 15-40 [ Rotella in past , now Amsiol ] yr round , not a problem , have started as low as -25*F not plugged in [ but I do most of the time ] .

 

[jakprince]

If its synthetic its probably fine but dino 15w40 gets rather thick when it gets down to 10 degrees and below. Also plugging in the truck does nothin for the motor oil in the pan.

 

[tgordon]

I run the 15w-40 in my jeep, but it can benefit from the thiker oil, if you know what i mean. Some of th esmaller diesels are now calling for 10w-30. We were told by ma deere it was because they have tighter tolerances in the engines

 

[catoiler]

At work 15/40 in everything as the co don't want the different oils. just buy one for all,even the hyd oil is 15/40!

 

[DPellegrin]

You may not want to hear this, but I'm with the maintenance guys on this one! If your only concern is cold start performance, I have to believe the difference between 5W and 15W is negligable. On the other hand I sure like having that 40W in those fleet vehicles, because I'm sure they are driven like baby carriages.

A couple a years ago Ford had engine failure problems with their Crown Vics at the LA County Sheriffs dept. After all was said and done a big part of the solution was to go away from the 5W-20 and to a 15W-40 in those squad cars. Now I know that is CA. and heat is the primary concern there; but, the 15W-40 offers better engine protection regardless of temperature.



Regards,

 

[steved]

According to some guys in the know, thinner is better. It protects faster during cold start, carries more heat away (flows faster), etc...

While some thinner oils were developed for mileage, the use of a thinner oil has come to be more beneficial than detrimental. There are extremely good looking UOAs of 5w30 oils (and some 0w20 oils)... which are getting very close to the viscosity of hydraulic fluids!

That said, I run WHAT the car specs... oils have come a long way. I'm not sure that thinner is not necessarily better... it is one of those "do what you feel is right" things. Whatever makes you comfortable!

steved

 

[lil red cummins]

i recently went to an SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) meeting where a gentleman with 35 years of experience at Lubrizol gave us some eye opening information. Lubrizol makes additives for oil, not the oil.



his specialty was additives for engine oils.



the short story is this:



1. use the range of viscosity(ies) recommended by your manufacturer.



2. synthetics IN MOST CASES do no better than non synthetics because there are only so many detergents, stabilizers and other additives that can be put in oil. they are the first things used up in an oil that makes it "bad".



3. change oil on the recommended change intervals. extended drain intervals are not recommended because the additive package wears out before the base stock.



4. make sure you use an SAE "C" rated oil for compression ignition engines and a SAE "S" rated oil for spark ignition engines.



Now, obviously many of us DON'T follow these recommendations, but that is what one industry expert says.



there were a host of additional tips and recommendations, but that covers the basics.



one of the other very important issues was:



do not use heavier oil in an engine designed for light weight oil. if your car is rated 5W-30, don't use 15-40 unless it shows it in the owners manual for high temperature areas.



do not use thin oil in one designed for heavier weight oils. i would never put 5W-30 in my 1930 Model "A" ford because it is supposed to have 30 weight.



BTW, Lubrizol sells to any and all oil manufacturers. they don't really care whether you buy dino oil or synthetic.



this is provided for informational purposes ONLY. i do not work for or particularly endorse any of the information from this gentleman. just passing on what we were told.



jim.

 

[steved]

i recently went to an SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) meeting where a gentleman with 35 years of experience at Lubrizol gave us some eye opening information. Lubrizol makes additives for oil, not the oil.



his specialty was additives for engine oils.



the short story is this:



1. use the range of viscosity(ies) recommended by your manufacturer.



2. synthetics IN MOST CASES do no better than non synthetics because there are only so many detergents, stabilizers and other additives that can be put in oil. they are the first things used up in an oil that makes it "bad".



3. change oil on the recommended change intervals. extended drain intervals are not recommended because the additive package wears out before the base stock.



4. make sure you use an SAE "C" rated oil for compression ignition engines and a SAE "S" rated oil for spark ignition engines.



Now, obviously many of us DON'T follow these recommendations, but that is what one industry expert says.



there were a host of additional tips and recommendations, but that covers the basics.



one of the other very important issues was:



do not use heavier oil in an engine designed for light weight oil. if your car is rated 5W-30, don't use 15-40 unless it shows it in the owners manual for high temperature areas.



do not use thin oil in one designed for heavier weight oils. i would never put 5W-30 in my 1930 Model "A" ford because it is supposed to have 30 weight.



BTW, Lubrizol sells to any and all oil manufacturers. they don't really care whether you buy dino oil or synthetic.



this is provided for informational purposes ONLY. i do not work for or particularly endorse any of the information from this gentleman. just passing on what we were told.



jim.

Very interesting...



The only thing I would say is that his "extended change intervals" could be ran if UOAs are completed to show the oil is still in good shape...



steved

 

[rbattelle]

I've always figured that viscosity recommendations are based almost entirely on the size of the battery in the vehicle.

My wife's Civic and Accord both take 5w-20, and both have batteries the size of a "D" cell. (Okay, not quite, but you get the point).

Ryan

 

[DPellegrin]

lil red cummins- excellent info- so basically follow the manufacturers recommendations. Lubrizol folks are smart people they make additive packages for many oil suppliers. However, I would not expect them to say anything but what they said. All the API oil ratings have required testing behind them. Cummins has their test, CAT has their test, DDC has their test, Mack has their test, a particular oil (and additive package) has to pass all these tests before it's given an API license and ultimately the "API donut"

that goes on the bottle. What is not widely known is the actual performance of a particular oil during any of the qualification tests. Some oils perform a lot better than other oils on particular tests, but not as good as other parts of the qualification test. In any testing that I have ever seen the 15W40 oils always perform better than the 5W's on scuffing and wear tests, regardless of engine manufaturer. The 5W20 oils were developed for CAFE standard compliance at the detriment of engine durability. BTW many 15W-40 oils carry "S" and "C" qualifications.

 

[GDMRTN]

I don't know about gas engines in lite trucks. But in cars we have seen oil pumps blow out and relief valves get stuck because 15/40 oil was used where 5/30 belonged. Also saw bent valves because thicker oil didn't let the lifters bleed out fast enough. Ford seems to be the most "picky" about their oil weight. Have also seen noisy engines get quiet after getting the heavier oil changed to the correct stuff. And yes, my dad has a shop and we see this stuff quite often.

 

[Crash&Burn]

The 5W-30 , is mostly for millage laws , not good lube for eng .

The manufactures get it at both ends , the 5W passes the law & makes for more repairs .

I use 15-40 [ Rotella in past , now Amsiol ] yr round , not a problem , have started as low as -25*F not plugged in [ but I do most of the time ] .

I suppose my wife"s Excape with over a 100,000 miles could go at any time now!

Never anything but 5w20... ... .

Never changed sooner than 7500 miles... .

 

[Gene Arnold]

I seem to remember a notice from GM a few years ago that cautioned owners of their gas powered vehicles to use only 5W30 or risk voiding their warranties. Its been a long time ago but as I recall it had to do with the closer tolerances in modern engines. I have 98,000 on my 4. 7 V8 Lincoln Continental. I never use anything but 5W/30 and change between 5,000 and 7,000 depending on how many long trip miles are on it. Still runs like new.



Gene

 

[Ncostello]

DPellegrin... I completely respect your opinion. I respect the opinions of our shop mechanics. I'm open to hear both sides really.



I had a Ford F150 300 6cyl that went 230,000 on Motorcraft 10W-30 and FL-1A filters every 3000 since the day it was new. Sold it and its still going that I know of. Never the first breakdown or hint of any internal problems. Thats what was recommended and thats what I used. It worked.



Doesn't anyone think that if Ford (for example) knowingly recommends 5W-20, which in turn would cause premature engine wear/failure, and such could be proven... that they would be open to some kind of litigation that would cost them millions upon millions in engine repairs??? Isn't there a better reason besides MPG's? If it were only MPG's... they why don't they go 0W-20... or why can I still buy a car the recommends 5W-30? Wouldn't all manufacturers want the MPG benefits of 5W-20?



Something just tells me that the engine tolerances and design dynamics dictate the oil type. Dual overhead cams need oil flowing fast. Lighter oils seem to do this better.



As far as police cars go... I've ridden in them around here plenty of times with my friend who is a Deputy Sheriff. As far as I know they get serviced at the local Ford dealer. Using Motorcraft auto oils.



I have no idea how they last past 100K no matter what you dump into them. I'm always amazed how hard the 4. 6L engines get ran. Seems like he's constantly got his foot to the floor and the rpms seem to go sky high and the engine sounds like its knocking apart... . yet he'll still get over 100K out of the engine. Once in a while they'll lose one. But thats usually on the cars that have high miles beyone 150K. Mostly those are reserve cars anyhow.



Cop car miles are definately longer than other miles.

 

[DPellegrin]

NCostello, Let me clarify. I did not say that 5W20 "... would cause premature engine wear/failure... " The example of the LA County Sherrif squad cars is a real one. I have direct knowledge of this situation and LA County did extensive testing with an Exxon-Mobil 15W-40 totally approved by FoMoCo for that particular application. What this says to me is that, in that particular application, which everyone agrees is a ultra-severe operating environment that 15W-40 performed better than the 5W20 it replaced and was clearly part of the solution to engine failures in those cars. Now, having said all that, just maybe your fleet trucks are not subjected to the severe operating conditions so therefore just maybe you don't need the 15W-40. But if I'm the fleet maintenance guy, I want all the protection I can get for the vehicles I am charged with maintaining! Do you really think that Ford and many other auto manufacturers went from a 5W30 to a 5W20 because it would improve engine life? I think not. They needed to get a improvement in brake specific fuel consumption without affecting emissions. 5W20 got them there!

 

[Diesel Dually]

We have a fleet of Crown Vic police package and a few mom and pop Crown vics with the 4. 6L. About a year after the 4. 6L came out Ford sent us a letter telling us we MUST use the weight oil that they specify or they would void the warranty. They explained that the tolerances were much tighter and they wanted oil to the cam shafts very quickly. The letter even gave examples of some police agencies using 20w50 (like they did in their older Crown Vics with the 351W) and they were blowing seals, oil filters and whole engines. We run the specified oil and get normal wear, not excessive. Most of our cruisers run between 125K and 160K before they are auctioned off. The lighter oil is for fuel economy, but it is also to get lube oil to moving parts quickly. Newer gas engines want a large volume of oil rather than a lot of oil pressure IMO. The biggest problem with the 4. 6L is stripped spark plug holes and occasional head gaskets.

The additives in the diesel oils prior to the latest offerings as required to meet emisions weren't too friendly to catalytic converters found on gas vehicles.



IMHO newer engines with newer metalurgy (SP?) and much tighter tolerances require a lighter weight oil and are designed that way for emisions, fuel economy, while still being able to last a long time.



All that being said I do run Rotella 5W40 in both of my trucks due to the cold weather we get up here. It is currently -5 F and they will both start quickly with oil pressure almost immediately without being plugged in. If this oil didn't cover the 15W40 range and wasn't a diesel oil I woul not use it...

 

[nickleinonen]

my truck had 15w40 from factory. . first oil change it got 10w30 [winter time] next change it got 15w40 rotella. . after that it had 5w40 for 1 change, from there i went to 0w40. . i run that year round. . now i use that since it is easy for me to get. if i could get a good 5w40 [eg: delvac1] easially for the same price, i would buy 3-4 cases right now. .

if pressures are good and oil samples come back good, i'm all for thin stuff

 

[DPellegrin]

nickleinonen- Assuming your truck is powered by Cummins, I offer the following: 15W40-excellent, 5W40 synthetic-very good, 0W40- not good, not in my Cummins!!