Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 160 pump - upgrade challenged?

[Gray 5.9]

So..What works best for daily?

I want more Umph from my 160 also, but would like to get mileage daily to. I run empty 90% of the time. I've already got a 250 plate but , I've got it slide back towards the fire wall for now because I was told that I could blow the tips of the injectors apart if I had it in the stock position.





Can I run 215 Injectors and slide the plate forward without adding a bigger than stock turbo housing,DV's?



What kind of HP am I looking at?

 

[DRAG DIESEL]

Originally posted by Cooker

DRAG DIESEL,

Why only 12. 5 degrees of timing?

1. I like the north end of my conecting rod bearings.

2. I like my original stock headgasket.

3. I like my cam with the lift it curently has

4. I would like to be racing this truck when it has 500,000 miles on it.

5. I can't keep a turbo on to save my life, so the last though on m mind was to get more power.



I am not totaly convinced that high timing is the best thing for my truck. 15-16 is fine but its not for me at this point.



Let me explain my reasons for those that are wondering.



1. The sooner you shoot the fuel in the cylinder the more it has to compress the "liquid" aka: the fuel. This directly make the compression stroke "harder" and that force has to go somewhere.



2. We all know the stock headgasket is the strongest thing in the whole world Nuf said here.



3. In addition to the connecting rod bearing wear, the valvetrain takes further punishment as well. After the powerstroke the exahsust valve has to open at some point to get rid of the exhaust that has been used. Higher cylinder pressures associated with high timing put more strain on the exhaust loab. Not a big concern, but I don't want to take the chance.



4. That's a dream of mine as I have take extreme care of my motor. 208k and still kickin'. I think that is more than you can say for most people with 500+hp



5. Higher timing ads more power, hands down. It's been one turbo after another. I should have my OSB on by Monday Tuesday. So we will see how it responds on the ole' 5. 9.



Hope this helps,

Jake

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Jake's approach is worth considering. Usually on this forum folks recommend the biggest, mostest, radical parts and adjustments. Little is said (or known?) about the downside. No one likes to post about breakage and what extreme setting or part might have caused it.



Those wanting to use a 160 pump are financially challenged or they would buy a big pump. Why put hundreds of $ into parts for the little pump, sacrifice driveability and mpg, perhaps even wash down the cylinder walls with raw fuel? It is worth thinking about saving up for the big pump while putting cost effective, moderate stuff in the truck, consistent with what the little pump can give while lasting a while, maybe even stuff that can be used or easily sold later if a big pump comes via Santa You can often scrounge stock springs from another pump and/or shim the high rpm springs and get enough rpm.



The 370s give maybe 30-40 hp more with the 215 pump compared to 215 5 hole or the similar 6 hole injectors. With the little pumps, the increase may not be as good, and the delivery valves that are apparently needed for the 160 pump to keep up will add cost and cut driveability, and make for more smoke when you don't even want it. The smaller injectors will run cleaner in town and give better in-town mpg, especially in cold weather. On the road, there isn't much difference in mpg betwen 215s and 370s.

 

[Cooker]

Joe,

In your opinion what is the happy medium for timing? What do you recommend for longevity and best all around performance?



DRAG DIESEL,

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

With the 215 pump, for 1400-1700 rpm, 14 deg; for 2000-2300, 15. 5 deg. , for 2600-3000 rpm, 18 deg. With the smaller pumps, you can add 1-2 degrees.

 

[krs]

Would you say the same thing about all 215 pumps, Joe? I mean is there no difference in recommendation between a pre-january 1996 215 pump (cpl 2023) which stock setting is 12. 5 degrees and a post '06 215 pump (cpl 2175) for which the stock setting is 13. 5 degrees?



Or can all 215 pumps be considered to be the same performance wise regardless their initial use and whether or not they are OBD-II capable?

 

[Gray 5.9]

Whats the diffrence between the 215 5 hole injectors and 6 hole injectors? Which one gives a better spray pattern for everyday driving and towing on the weekend?



I'm considering going from my stock injectors (160s) to the 215s with the #5 250 plate I have. Will It be nessary for a Bigger turbo housing, and DV's to run the 215's in my 160 pump?



What kind of Hp/Tq , MPG can I expect?



From what I have read in the previous posts and other combos ,I don't think I will want anything bigger. 90% of the time I run empty, the other 10% I pull an 8000# trailer on the weekend.



The bottom line is what works best for this combo.



Thanks for any replys

 

[Sled Puller]

You guys who want to tow, daily drive with minimal smoke, and are trying to avoid BOMB mishaps, may want to get ahold of Diesel Injection of Pittsburgh.



Bruce Mallison has quite possibly turned more Cummins 5. 9s and 8. 3s (also,class 8 engines) up for cool, usable power than anyone else on this board.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Both 215 pumps can be treated the same. Bruce Mallinson's shop can be reached at 724-274-4080. I like the 6 holers a little better but both are OK. Either should give 40-50 hp in a 160.

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

You guys who want to tow, daily drive with minimal smoke, and are trying to avoid BOMB mishaps, may want to get ahold of Diesel Injection of Pittsburgh.



Bruce Mallison has quite possibly turned more Cummins 5. 9s and 8. 3s (also,class 8 engines) up for cool, usable power than anyone else on this board.

He did my 95 and it would go like crazy and pull a trailer great too. They are nice people too.



Blake

 

[WadePatton]

Maybe my pyro is broke, but I ain't getting enough heat with the 215/6's and #4 all the way with 16 timing.



Going to get some 370's next week. Then maybe I'll have to upgrade the airflow or slide the plate back.



Don't get me wrong. It's fun to drive and is moving pretty good. But there's more in there. I want to get to 400HP. Ain't there yet.



What about washer thickness? Any of you experiment with that? I've heard different things.

 

[WadePatton]

370's

215/6 were not hot enough. Pyro would hang up at 1250-1300.



I popped in the 370's and slid the plate back to 3/4 forward position and HOOOO AAAAH! Better power, pyro swings real fast--pick a number, way better! Plate has to be moved back a bit more.



But I do need DV's. Have a general roughness to the engine at light load/constant throttle.



Trying to scrounge up some used 181's or 191's. Have barely used 215/6's for sale.

 

[edmeyers]

how much for your 215/6's

 

[DRAG DIESEL]

Re: 370's

Originally posted by WadePatton

Plate has to be moved back a bit more.

WHAT!!!???

 

[WadePatton]

Yeah, confirmed the negative slide today. 30 degrees, flat ground, pyro to 1500 way too easy.



Air mods in order.