19.5's vs dually safety and other factors

[PatrickCampbell]

I am going "for hire" and trying to figure out what is better. Money is not a factor - actually the price is relatively the same for 5 19. 5's with H tires / 5 tires or 7 dually wheels + dually conversion + 7 LR E tires.



One of the factors that I am worried about is the perception that a single rear wheel truck gives off. People who do not know the capabilities of 19. 5's are skeptical. This could mean customers or it might mean a big red flag to DOT people and lead me to get harassed a lot more than a dually. Maybe the for hire guys could chime in on that...



How much does the extra width of the dually's effect stability?



19. 5's

Wear more evenly, easier to rotate too.



Are easier to maintain / monitor the pressures of all tires



Less rubber on the ground = more weight per tread width. Not sure if that is a + or not????



Run 120 PSI = very stiff sidewall... All steel belted



While it does not have the extra width (stability?) and extra tire in case of a blow out on the drive axle, the steer axle is safer with 19. 5's, and a blowout in the steer axle is a lot more scary than the drive axle...



19. 5's will probably last longer (I got about 100,000 miles out of mine).



Four 19. 5's are about the same weight as six 16's.



And the dually is basically all the opposite of the 19. 5's in terms of advantages and disadvantages.



Thoughts??



I should throw in that I haven ever driven or towed with a dually... but that my gut feeling says go dually...

 

[DHayden]

It would be nice if you had a friend or a near by TDR member with a dually that you could take a spin with a load. Once you did the choice would be clear. Stability is awesome in winds or even when tractor/trailers pass in the opposite direction on a 2 lane. No doubt the 19. 5's are much better if your using 4 wheels instead of 6 but if I was going to do it full time 6 wheels would be my only option.

 

[MMeier]

Dually

... only way to fly! I'm in the process also of going "for hire". One of the questions the insurance guy seems to have to answer when inquiring is "do I have a single or dual rear wheel truck"? Seems the major companies tend to frown on singles. Have to have insurance in effect before you can get your MC #, have my DOT already so I can haul my own "personal" property without too much grief. Hopefully will be all set too go by the 2nd week of the New year! Need to find a 40-45' flat deck to put behind the 03 so I can help my bud haul intermodal containers from L. A. to here. Oo.

 

[CUMMINZ]

19.5s

How your truck handles is directly related to the actually capacity of your tires. Physically the width of the dually has very little to do with the stability. It is the fact that you have 4 tires rated at lets say 3k a tire. That is 12k rating for the rear (not exactly). Bear in mind that dually tires do not always sit firmly on the tarmack. The road in many places is crowned. That is why many a truck going down the road, the inside tire looks under-inflated. Also physically the location of the rear spring attachment to the rear axle is where the load is applied on the axle. The load sway would be exactly the same on both a dually and a single tire 3500. (supposing your springs were the same). I. E. You take 2 trucks. One a 3500 SRW and a 3500 DRW and make sure both trucks had exactly the same springs. A large over-cab 13. 5' slide in would ride just as well on the 3500SRW. (Sway wise). But the 3500DRW would carry the load down the highway with less wiggle in the road because of the fact you had duallys.

The other point.

A 3500 dually with 4 10plyx17s are probably rated at 2900#s per tire. (Lets round it off to 3000#) That is 12k.

2 14-16 ply 19. 5s are rated at greater than 12k.

I have been passed by duallys that crossed over in front of me on a well crowned highway and seen daylight under the outside tire. (((What is that kind of load doing to the inside tire))) With 2 19. 5s you will never see this. :-laf



Let the war begin :-{}

 

[PatrickCampbell]

I don't know about over 12K, my previous 19. 5's were 4940# per tire. That is load range H 245's. The 265's go to 5500 and 285's to 6500.



I would not want to get 265's or 285's if I could help it. 245's for me. The 245's are already larger than my 265/75/16's. Not really looking to go bigger unless I had to. In terms of load, I am talking max. 8000 lbs on the rear axle I would think that is in the comfort zone of LR H 245/70/19. 5's with almost 1000 lbs per tire to max load.



Hmmmm.

 

[CUMMINZ]

I recon 6k came to mind because I did a lot of research wanting to do to a 285.



CUMMINZ

 

[HBarlow]

Patrick:



Count my vote for dually pickups. I continue to be impressed with the capability of mine after 280k miles. Class 2 trucks (3/4 ton, 2500 series) can and do pull and haul heavy loads but in many cases they can't do it legally. A Class 3 dually is almost always a better choice for commercial hauling. When you haul commercially you have to take the word "legally" into consideration.



I would politely disagree with the argument presented by a fellow TDR member above. I do not accept that interpretation of stability. Additional stability IS provided by a dually. Whether it results from the total width of the contact point, ie from the outside edge of the outside tire to the inside edge of the inside tire or by the combined width or contact patch provided by two tires side by side compared to the width of one single tire can be debated, but I am convinced that my dually Ram offers far more stability than previous single rear wheel trucks I have owned. I think most cabover camper owners would agree.



The issue of driving on a road with such a high crown as to prevent tread contact on outside wheels is theoretically possible but, in a practical sense, very rarely going to occur.



But to address your real question: Can you improve the capability of your truck for commercial hauling by installing four 19. 5" tires and wheels or six 16" wheels and tires with a dually conversion? My answer is yes... ..... and no.



DOT inspectors may consider several factors depending on their enforcement goal. They may calculate the weight carrying capacity of your tires and compare that figure to your actual axle weight. You can improve that factor with either choice. Or, they may read your truck's GVWR off the manufacturer's sticker on the inside of your driver's door and compare that figure to the actual weight. You can't change that.



Either four 19. 5" tires and wheels OR a dually conversion and six 16" tires will improve the weight factor but neither will change the actual rating of your truck.



Several months ago a somewhat "enthusiastic" WY DOT inspector at the I-80 Port of Entry on the east side of WY checked me out carefully to see if he could catch me exceeding 26,000#. He walked outside with me to inspect my truck and trailer and the only thing he looked at was my truck's GVWR sticker (10,500#) and the GVWR sticker of the trailer I was pulling which was something like 10,000#. I was safe. However, the inspector bragged to me of putting a fellow transporter out of service a couple of days earlier. According to the inspector, the other driver was pulling a moderate-sized fifth wheel with a 3/4 ton truck. The inspector put him out of service because with the pin weight of the 5er his truck's GVWR was exceeded by 1000 pounds or more. He seemed to be proud of his action.



In this case, the tire capacity of the poor guy's truck didn't matter. The driver had to park and disconnect the trailer and had to call his company to send another driver to pick up his load and continue his trip. He would have lost all or most of the pay for his trip. That could happen to you. Explaining to a DOT officer that you spent $x000. oo on a dually conversion and new tires and wheels or $x000. 00 on new 19. 5" wheels and tires will not impress him as he writes the citation and the out of service notice for you.



If you don't believe me, ask me to tell you how I explained to an Iowa DOT officer how the window tint on my door windows is legal and perfectly acceptable in Texas as he wrote the ticket and put me out of service on I-80 a couple of months ago.



Harvey

 

[CUMMINZ]

Let me try this once again to explain a point of view. Please read carefully my first post. We were talking about stability & sway. Look closely at the photo below I am using from the Rickson website. If That truck is equipped as I explained earlier with same springs as a dually will have no more rock and roll than a dually. Walk up to this type truck and grab hold of the camper and thrash it as violently as you can side to side. The movement from side to side is in the springs. The dually will rock the same way but a little less due to the heavier springs. Where a dually is better is in the severe forces that are trying to move the load applied at the juncture of the spring contact with the axle (side to side) Not sway but a laterial shift of the sidewalls. I placed 2 extra full length leafs on the rear of my truck and a rear sway bar. I have almost NO sway pulling my 22k Cedar Creek but I do have sidewall flex. That I plan to remedy with 285x19. 5s.



#ad




CUMMINZ

 

[PatrickCampbell]

I know a lot of it is left up for whomever to interpret.



Here's mine. When you hook up to a trailer, the GVW of your power unit alone does ("should") not matter. You "should" be limited to the GVW of truck added to GVW of trailer and then by the axle ratings. This is why you will see a rear axle weight of 2500 lbs from the factory, but a rear GAWR 6084 lbs. That leaves 3584 of "payload" on the rear axle. But with a curb weight of 7000# and a GVW of 8800, there is no way to stay within the GVW and come anywhere near the rear GAWR.



There is some chance I am taking which is why I took the bed off and am registering as a 26k tractor. I'm not even sure a chassis cab dually is the

"right" way to do it. The real right way would be a 26K "tractor" which does not exist unless you take a Class 5 (more like a 6 or a 7) and have someone down rate it, then those things weigh like 10,000 lbs. , there goes 3000 lbs of payload.

 

[DHayden]

Body sway may be the same but if its loaded heavy and alot of hotshots are, you will get sidewall flex too. That will definately be felt and be uncomfortable in a single compared to a dual.

 

[Mhannink]

well if i understand this right and i think that i am then i would agree w/ cumminz



what i think hes saying is say a srw and a drw truck will have the same sway. so if the wind pushes the side of the camper the springs being the same will react the same regaredless of tire. the sidewall tho affects how it will handle load and the side to side forces of a trailer amd so 19. 5 will handle the same as 16s but will take more load.



to the original quetion why don't u get the best of both worlds and get a dually w/ 19. 5s

 

[jaird]

19.5s

If you are talking about what used to be called "super singles", you might look at many of the tanker tractor-trailers on the road today. Many are changing to "super singles". For those of us who pull 5th wheel campers and like to go to Cape Hatteras and take our truck on the beach, "super singles"would be a benefit. What would be real nice would be a 5500 Dodge with "super singles", so that you could have a higher GCWR and "super single" tires. Just my opinion.

 

[JStrader]

As for the single verse dual sway. I have a 13,000 pound 38ft fifth wheel camper. I pulled it for a year and a half with my single wheel 03 ton. It pulled it great, up hill, down hill flat, whatever. It however was not nearly as stable as mt 05 dually.

When you are rolling along in a good cross wind and go through a over pass or by a small hill, hold on to the wheel when you come out.

It is not the biggest or longest I pull but the best example.

My dually is much more stable all around.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

They would be kinda like super singles for us, but theyre regular old 19. 5's that medium duty trucks use. They come in ranges from 3000 lbs up to 6000 lbs.

 

[hammersley]

19.5" as I understand are MUCH Harder

on Brakes as the rig was designed for a different "hole"... ... my tire guy says that is what they see,,,,,,

 

[jwduke]

Harvey, (Now on my soap box) Iowa is a bunch of @ss holes when it comes to window tint! Yhis is because the commander of the Highway Patrol is stupid! He is also the reason we dont have different backgrounds on our licence plates, as the HP in this state are too stupid to know how to read them (Now off of my soapbox)!



As for 19. 5's, the local tire dealer told me they ride like rocks, do they?

 

[PatrickCampbell]

I would not be surprised that they are hard on brakes. Last time I weighed my stock 245/70/17's vs 245/70/19. 5's it was about 60 lbs vs 100 lbs. (I think that is right, I'll have to dig up the pics of the scales I took).



They ride like baloons until they are broken in and then they are pretty hard. They are all steel belted and inflate up to 120 PSI.

 

[DHayden]

I upgraded my brakes to AGR a few years ago. I also use my exhaust brake for slowing down most the time even when unloaded. My brakes look brand new. As for ride, they do feel like balloons until the recommended break in. Take it out on the highway for a few hours with some slow stops and starts, let it sit overnight and wow what a difference.

I actually like the way they ride better than my stock tires. Much more stable going around corners, you dont feel the "small stuff" you used to, but if you hit a big pot hole you will know it. The brand I went with don't even sing on the highway like alot of them do. I'm sure they do to an extent, but I cant tell a difference in the cab.

 

[EricBu12]

I would have to agree with both sides since both sides are for different reasons...



I have the 19. 5 with Ricksons 8 lug Forged Aluminum (lighter) rims and "F" rated Michelin 12 ply tires. I tow a 36' 5th and for non-Commercial I am over GVW but as the other said, you will be put out of service on that because of being over GVW.....



IF, you won't be towing very heavy, and can be under the 2500 GVW, I would go with the 19. 5 tires for longevity, mileage, and ease of Maintenance ...



You see, even if you do the dually conversion, you still have a 2500 GVW so if you are going to tow heavy, it is better to get a 3500 truck that is a dually already... There is the 3500 Mega cab Dually out now but it is a short-bed... I am wanting to wait til the 2007 4500 comes out and see what they do with that... .



There is another option if you are towing only 5th wheels and want to save your GVW. .



http://hitch-buddy.com/5thwheel.htm

.

 

[jwduke]

No way EricBu12! Can you imagine trying to back that up???