190's vs the PODs

[MMoyle]

Hi Guys,



I plan on making a call to Piers in the next few days to order some goodies. The list includes:



Injectors

HX35

GS 3200

Fuel Pin



I have been going back and forth on the 190 vs POD issue. Another TDR member is egging me on to go with the PODs. I want the most power possible (who doesn't!!) with great reliability and good mileage. The thing that turns me off with the PODs is the smoke. I have been reading previous posts from TDR members saying the PODs smoke at idle and that they can really smoke out a an innocent rice buner I can live without the smoke. I live in Arizona and I have to go through a yearly emissions test and I am concerned that I may not pass emissions with the PODs. Will I see a major power increase in the PODs vs the 190's? Mileage and reliability is the number one concern here. What do you guys think?



Thanks

Mike

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hi Mike,



I'd suggest the 190's since you don't want smoke/haze that is hard to cope with, also you will find that larger injectors in general will smoke a bit more if you drive/tow/haul at any altitude,so to speak.

The POD injectors will give your roughly 52-55 RWHP over your stock injectors, the 190's will give you roughly 28 RWHP (plus/minus) over stock nozzles... they can both be "tuned up a bit or down a bit" depending on what you want. . don't forget to tweak you pump timing too, it helps with smoke and improves throttle response and a bit of mileage gain.

If you can, try to get a pyro (I didn't see one in your signature) that will really be needed to keep temps available to you while your towing etc. in fact PDR will likely "REALLY" suggest you do for you own sake... . safety obviously.

The HX35 is a great turbo,,,,you'll luv it... mine has taken crap and abuse you wouldn't believe and it is still just hummin along like no one's business... . eg: 1800* pegged/47psi full load on more than a few occasions... not to say that they "all will" but they are a tuff little huffer.....



The Gov spring is great. You'll be able to pull harder longer with it... . here is were the pyro comes in realy handy too...

They should also send along some good instructions... if you need them let mek know and I'll be glad to round some up for you ok...



Try a freebie too... . swiss cheese your airbox if haven't already,,,,drill some

2-2. 5" holes in the plastic box and cover the holes with some screen door material... it keeps the bugs/twigs/leaves out and lets in more air... . this is good in winter since it will allow some warmer engine compartment air in to help keep cylinder temps up in cold weather...



hope that helps...





pb...

 

[JLEONARD]

Don't overlook the Bully Dog + 50s. Yes they are a bit more $$. They approach the PODs in power but they do not smoke at all at idle. And they do not smoke as much as the PODs under power.

Jay

 

[Buffalo]

DTT Trans w/ 89% TC

Hi MMoyle,



How are you?



Just noticed in your signature that you got the DTT trans with the 89% TC. How is it working for you? Does it work much better than the stock TC (I'm sure it does)?



Let us know how your new injectors work, also.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[dpuckett]

I, too, am interested in the POD/190/Buly Dog debate, pros and cons. Might start a new thread on that very argument. One can install the . 020" injector washers to cut idle smoke, or so I've heard. Hafta ask those with PODs about that for sure. I'm thinking if you are concerned with MPGs (who isnt at $3+ per gal?), you would want to stay with a close to stock injector tip spray pattern. I could be wrong, though.



Daniel

 

[JLEONARD]

I'm thinking if you are concerned with MPGs

A diesel engine is a very precise machine and will use fuel based on the amount of horsepower you are USING... . not on the amount of hp you have available. And generally speaking, an engine with a higher potential hp will get better economy when used a reduce hp level.



That means that you can juice it up all you want, and if you tickle the go pedal to run the truck like it did with stock set ups, your mileage will be about the same or maybe a little better.

That said, I generally get less mileage now because I tend to drive with a heavy right foot.

But I have gone thru a tank of fuel here and there with mileage in mind... and I can still get what I used to when it was all stock.



Of course bear in mind that when you stomp on the go pedal all that smoke you see comming out the exh pipe is inefficiency. And many of us like that color. :-laf

 

[RailroadJim]

same power, less smoke....why?

If the bully dogs don't smoke as much as pods but have the same power, does it follow that the bd's somehow atomize more efficiently? This may lead to the "what is good smoke" question, ran a thread search, didn't find, please re-direct if this has been covered before.

 

[JLEONARD]

If the bully dogs don't smoke as much as pods but have the same power,

First please go back up and read closely what I wrote... . I wrote they APPROACH the PODs in power. PODs definately have more power potential.

But to answer your question, yes it stands to reason, at least to me, that the Bully Dogs may atomize better. Like I said I have zero smoke at idle, and some during "normal" acceleration. Most of that I can tune out I think, but then what fun would that be? I wouldn't be able to "train" the SUV soccer mom behind me that she should stay at least a half car length behind. :-laf

At any rate, the smoke does not "billow out" like I have seen from other trucks that darken out half the city. It is more like "there you go, breathe that in for a few seconds and maybe you'll learn" type of smoke.



Is that "good smoke" or "bad"?

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

There is a local turbo guy here in Utah who works at Gillett and says they will not carry the 190's or most Bosch injectors because the quality is not as good any more, he thinks the PODs are vastly superior. That said, strictly because of the smoke issue, I ordered the 190's. I honestly notice a very minimal difference over the stock injectors. With my pump tuned right, I was able to get my stock injectors to scream. But again, I am not looking at massive power, probably something like 200 or 250 hp for you guys (about 160 hp for me, maybe 400 ft/lbs, from 120/350 ft/lbs stock). All the 190's have done for me so far have really just made excess smoke and slightly poorer mileage as far as I can tell. I am currently installing a WH1C (larger impeller than the H1C - I believe the same size as HX35 impeller) and a non WG 12 cm2 housing so I will make some good boost now. When I had it turned up, I was able to get as high as 15 or even 17 lbs of boost with the little stock H1C with a non WG 16 cm2 housing (stock on a 4BT). But tuned to stock or closer to it, about 10-12 lbs of boost, maybe 15 when really really pushing it. Anywhoo, I am expecting higher numbers (into the 20's easily I think) so maybe it will be nice to have the 190's then. I also still don't have them dialed in too well, need to do a couple adjustments to have them tuned right... Are all of you with 190's happy with them?

 

[RailroadJim]

What i mean by good smoke or bad pertains to my lack of knowledge on why everybody wants alot of smoke when it means to me just fuel not completely burned. . ie... not max efficiency. . allthough i realize eff. is not the goal but power in most cases. I know this is new guy stuff and i'm getting off the thread subject but i'm trying to learn from everyone on here. My expierience has been with gas v8's so i'm trying to wrap my brain around how these big air pumps work so please expect some questions that might be construed as simplistic to the guys "in the know"

 

[MPN]

I installed a set of 190's lots more smoke, less milage about 1. 5 mpg on the highway and even more loss around town, they do pull harder more noticable during part throttle or when passing. Last weekend I removed them and put the stock ones back in mostly because of the cost of fuel, and it certainly does smoke less again, I aslo lost about 3 psi of boost, Also I pull a 5500 holiday trailer I tried the stock injectors first pulls fine, then installed the 190's diffiently more pulling power, and again fuel milage was only down about 1. 5 mpg

 

[CLiberty]

I can only speak for my old stockers (wich worked fine) and the POD`s. My truck will haze pretty good at idle but then again I`m also running . 060 seals on them (I shoulda got the inj`s from that "guy" up north of the border would have come with . 020 seals, live and learn). As far as fuel milage, my truck will get right around 20 per gal give or take a bit, thats if i drive conservatively, but with the added power you don`t have to hammer it to get it moving also. Smoke wise, it`ll lay a pretty good initial cloud and then it fizzles to a decent haze... but my pump is FAR from being maxed out and I`ve got a pretty large turbo considering the amount of fueling my pump is putting out, I would imagine with some more "tweakage" I could roll some decent coal if i wanted to. I would definitely do the POD`s again if only from a cost effective standpoint, heck if I wanted pod-like power and NO haze i could just drop four figures on some neeto custom EDM`s

 

[PToombs]

I was going to post and ask the same questions, as winter is coming and it's project time. Mark at PDR told me that 190's are actually smaller than stock, but atomize better, therefor, more HP with less fuel.

I haven't turned my fuel screw way in yet to see what it will do, and how much it will smoke. I think it will go quite a bit because boost is now only about 16 psi at WOT since I turned my pump. EGT's are about 900 or a 1000.

I don't usually drive the truck in the winter, and in the summer I drive alot and only tow the trailer occaisionally. I do want more power, but I don't know if POD's will smoke too much or are they acceptable for me.

I too, am interested in everybody's opinions.

 

[MMiller]

I have one of the last set of cheap Bosch 185's. With stock injectors, I saw 27 psi of boost, and just by installing the 185's I see 30 psi. While I cannot say what hp gains, just the injector change gave an incredible increase in the seat of the pants. I have some more smoke, but that is due to pump settings. At Peru I was able to tune the smoke almost gone, but it was pretty doggy then.



On my way to Peru, with the 33" mud tires, I still knocked down 20 mpg. Mileage is directly related to position of the foot on the throttle. I believe it has less to do with pump settings and injectors. I really don't believe that smoke/no smoke, really makes any differnce in economy. If you're using a bunch of power then your using a bunch of fuel. When spooled up to full boost, I can see haze out of my dual exhaust. If I backed the fuel out, to no haze I don't think my economy would change at all, maybe even worse when towing, because the truck would spend more time at full fuel trying to keep speed. My milage from bone stock, to current mods is about the same, its just a lot harder to get the good economy now because the truck is just so much fun to drive.



Michael

 

[PToombs]

The weather was nice yesterday, 1st day without rain in a week. I thought I'd play with the truck. I was nervous about taking off the locking collar, so I hadn't done it. What a dumb a**! I should have done that months ago! I didn't know the truck could run like that. :--) I took my buddy for a ride and scared the stuff out of him. It was a good traction day, it took off straight,(open diff) then started coming around before I let off. Two cool black marks in the road.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Dumb question but what do you mean by locking collar? The ring on the pin or the actual collar on the full power screw?

 

[bgilbert]

The tack welded collar on the full fuel screw.