1993, did some mods and wondering if results are normal...

[pwerwagn]

Hey guys, first time posting here in 1st gen forum. I read here alot though.



My brother in law bought a nice 1993 ex cab, 4wd, auto truck recently. had a new trans (auto), and some other nice stuff. This is the first 1st gen I have had the pleasure of working on. I love the first gens by the way... I have 2 70's dodges.



Back on track... .

What it has done as of now:

190 injectors (he is thinking now of selling the 190's and doing POD's)

aftermarket intercooler

HX35 with 12cm housing (wastegated) from a 98 I had laying around

full 3", mandrel bends, decent 3" muffler

BHAF



Yesterday we finally messed with the pump a little. It ran ok before, didnt smoke at all. the 12cm housing is nice, he didnt like the 16 on it. It was making almost 30 psi with the 12cm before pump mods.

anyways, we turned the fuel pin about 90* or so CW. The tick mark on his wasnt at the 12:00 position, it was about 11:00. we put it about 2:00 or so.

I also turned the "smoke screw" in about 2 turns to start with. And I loosened the preload on the AFC spring with the starwheel as far as it would go.

We went and drove it ("Fuel screw" still untouched) and there was relatively no diff. still making 30psi. I plugged the wastegate so I would know if it was making more, and not wastegating itself.

so, with the fuel screw untouched, it had like 10% more smoke, relatively none. and it would clear up immediatley.



So I turned the smoke screw in another turn or 2, thinking that maybe the boost line was leaking going to the AFC. it didnt make any noticeable diff again!!!

so we turned the fuel screw in about 2 turns, and adjusted the idle back down. It runs ok now, it will put out a puff of smoke that is somewhat black, but it clears up totally within about 1-2 seconds. and it only does it from a dead stop, pedal to the floor run.



So, Im used to P7100's and tons of smoke. Im not sure if this is normal for the 1st gen, or whats going on. I still think the AFC might not be seeing boost, cause the power is very linear. It never "hits" like mine does when the afc moves.

Is the AFC line leaking common?? I checked it decent (didnt pressurize the intake yet though looking for leaks, thinking you guys may have a suggestion).

Oh yeah, boost is up slightly meaning more fuel, max is now about 34psi or so.





any info is appreciated,

thanks,

Jeff

 

[MEby]

try doing a search in this forum, I have and turned up more information than I could read in a week. Read my sig for my upgrade details. I am getting max egt at 1250* and 28 lb boost.

 

[pwerwagn]

Oh I've searched!! Ive been reading these threads in the 1st gen forum forever too, I always wanted one. Was actually looking for one when I found my 98 12V.



I guess Im just confused, because Ive read on here many reports of "wow, what a difference!!" stuff like that.

But I didnt think it was that drastic, and we did a lot.

Since you have the 21cm housing making 28psi, I would assume we have something slightly wrong. having tried them all on my 12V, I noticed a 10psi difference between the 12 and 21.



so is it common for the line feeding the AFC to leak?? I have a feeling thats the prob, but cant find the leak for sure. The power seems real linear, it never feels like it hits.



-Jeff

 

[CSchafer]

I have heard of a few boost lines haveing problems. First I guess I don't know what clock positions the fuel cone is supposed to be but you want the pin in the bore to come out as far as possible. I forgot if it's in the front or back of the pump, I think back. So you want the deepest setting of the cone to be facing the pin. If that is not enough take a dremel and grind the profile of the cone so that the pin can come out farther. Leave a little bit of steel there for strength but you can take alot of material Out of the cone. Leave a nice smooth ramp for the pin to follow. Then get the nylon washer out of the bottom of the bore and sand about half of it's thickness away. The afc dosent really hit hard like your describing but you can rule out a leak by Turning your smoke screw down all the way so there is no need for boost pressure at all. The afc will be at full fuel all the time then (that otta make it smoke). Make sure to be carefull if you grind away at the washer in the bottom and turn the smoke screw all the way down you don't go to far and break the pin off. If you only take half the washers thickness and leave the ledge in the cone at the same height there should not be a problem, just turn the smoke screw down easy, don't force it if you get some resistance. My pump was also able to take much more than 2 turns on the full fuel screw. Just go half a turn at a time till you get what your looking for or starts to have trouble comming back to idel. . That should atleast be enough fuel to get you into head gasket and egt problems. :-laf. The 190's arent all that big, POD's would make quite a bit more power.

Hope this help's a little

Cade

 

[dpuckett]

THe AFC giude pin is in the front of the "well" not the back. Look at the AFC pin taper, not the tick mark on the diaphragm. If someone like me got to it before, it could be realigned from stock. I think your AFC hose if just fine- if it were broke, it would make linear power... ... . Hmmm. But the boost sounds too high- I only hit 24psi or so with the AFc line unhooked on my 91 (pegged the gauge when AFC hooked up). Look real closely at the connection of the banjo fitting and the pot metal line. ALso look in the discontinued parts forum for a cheap fix.



You didnt mention the miles on it, and what use it had previously. Believe it or not, in my experience, trucks that got worked ran better at 150-200K than cream puffs. Anyway, point is, it could need a good dose of Stanadyne, et al, in the tank and a new fuel filter. It could just be time for a refresh of the pump, esp with the old seals in it, and the new fuel being unkind to them. Be sure the springs get replaced, including the governor spring with a 3200 spring.



Daniel

 

[pwerwagn]

We almost dyno'd it yesterday, but ran out of time. on a side note, we had a 02 24V make 580hp on #2 only, single turbo. pretty decent.



I put the pin to where the deepest point is where it rides. Towards the front of the pump. It is at the deepest portion it will get.



So, the way its setup now:



AFC spring is as loose as it will get.

The smoke screw is as tight as it can get, way more than 2 turns also.

The pin is at the deepest portion.

The fuel screw on the back of the pump is about 2 turns in.

I filed about 1/16th of an inch off the nylon washer.



No diff yet. Still working on it though. The truck has 225,000 miles on it, used mostly to tow a 5th wheel.

I think I will have him come over and mess with the full fuel screw more. We are almost out of idle adjustment though, the way it is now only about 1/8th inch of the idle adjustment is left.



thanks for the suggestions guys, I really appreciate it.



--Jeff

 

[CSchafer]

My idel screw is all the way out and I had to modify the throttle plate where the tab for idel was to get more. Grind or buy a cone i think it's about a 40 horse difference. Took my truck from 27 lbs of boost and 1300 deg to peging the boost gauge (30lb) hard and peging the 1500 deg pyro on demand.

 

[pwerwagn]

Grind or buy a cone i think it's about a 40 horse difference.

A cone, meaning a fuel pin??

 

[pwerwagn]

Anyone have pics of a home-ground fuel pin?



another question, who is the "originator" of grinding the fuel pins? cause I would prefer to buy one from them. I think i remember reading a while back that bullydog or someone actually copied the fuel pin from someone else.

I dont support copy cats... .



but if grinding my own is the way to go, so be it.

 

[Kayers]

Your story sound exactly like mine was when I first started bombing my truck. I adjusted everything possible and never got more than a small plume of smoke at take off. I had to jack with my idle screw to get the idle back down after the mods too. No matter what I did though, the power wasn't noteworthy and smoke was virtually nonexistant.



I wound up having my pump rebuilt and the pump shop found my spring on my plunger was broken. My pump plunger wasn't following the cam and getting full stroke. After the rebuild and resetting things to normal adjustments, smoke and power are like what everyone here typically reports. Cost was 600 for the pump rebuild.



Now I'm happy.

 

[pwerwagn]

Hmm, maybe thats the problem. I will ask my bro-in law if he had any reciepts of pump rebuilds or anything when he bought it. I doubt it though.



Thanks for the info.

 

[CSchafer]

member oldsmokey I think makes them but he has pics in is gallery of them. It's really not hard to grind it.

 

[pwerwagn]

Is this normal smoke for a 1st gen?? Cause it smokes more than this:

#ad




I found this pic of the fuel pin. But how can you grind this from the stock pin? the stock pin doesnt have that much material. does he start from something else? A piece of round stock, and then just drill and tap the top to bolt it to the diaphragm?

#ad

 

[DBF]

If that were my truck, you wouldn't even see that hill in the background. Maybe when it was stock, but even then I think it smoked more.



Nice lookin' truck.



Regards, DBF

 

[JLEONARD]

A piece of round stock, and then just drill and tap the top to bolt it to the diaphragm

As a minimum, the cam surfce must be hardened or it will wear very quickly. So if you started out with a piece of A-2 or similar and gave it a quick HT that would work out.

 

[MEby]

I'll second that the pump might just be worn out. On my truck I have the full fuel screw turned in all the way and its not even close to being a runaway engine. I turned the screw in so hard I havent been able to back it out to try even harder. Anyhow, seems like i've only heard of 1 or 2 other trucks do this. also smoke is only moderate, a light haze @ WOT.





Just as a side note, you wont feel the power "hit" as much with the afc modified because it takes less boost or in some cases no boost to feed it maximum amounts of fuel. On second thought, I guess some of it will depend on how fast your turbo spools. Am I wrong guys?

 

[pwerwagn]

Well, sounds like this truck may need a pump or sumpthin.



I ground the stock pin last night for him, and we tightned the smoke screw all the way pretty much. Also ground the nylon washer about 1/10th of an inch.

Still no difference. we even replaced the fuel filter again to be sure to rule it out.



thanks for all the help guys. Looks like we will just take the pump off and have it rebuilt. Might as well, since the newer seals would be a good thing with ULSD.



thanks,



Jeff

 

[MEby]

let us know how the new pump works.