1999 Cummins ATS Aftermarket transmission TC locked up

[Scott81]

Hey all,

I'm sure there have been ample issues thoughout the volumes of threads on here over transmission problems especially with the 47RE 2nd gen. I have perused tons of volumes of solutions for the whole "hunt-shift" OD problem and all the associated electrical problems that exist which thereby have caused havoc in this area. In the beginning I too thought maybe that was the problem with this '99 cummins I have. After cleaning every possible ground, fixing all the ground issues, wrapping the alternator wires in foil, adding on a noise suppressor, replacing every solenoid in the valve body the issue still bares down on my very soul, I'm just about ready to swap in a manual transmission at this point.

Start 'er up shift into Reverse all is well. Shift into Drive and instantly dies as if the TC is locked up at idle. Now the weird part is I can get it rolling quickly shift into neutral while it's still rolling restart drop down into low or drive and she will take off, rolling coal sounds like she's in OD but will get moving and drive, doesn't sound like it's shifting at all just lugging along and moving. Stop signs are my nemesis along with stop lights or practically anything that might make a guy need to stop, a quick shift to neutral if you are on top of things will afford another launch from a stop.

It's an ATS aftermarket transmission if that makes a difference can't see how.

Something noticeable over the past couple months, there has been a slow draw on my batteries while the truck sits, and before that I had the OD hunt issue also, but after cleaning all the electrical and doing that it went away. I have heard that batteries that are not up to par can cause issues but mostly with the OD hunt problem.

I would greatly appreciate any help with this I am at my wits end thanks in advance.

Regards
Scott

 

[Scott81]

P.S.
No OBD2 codes. Also I just read on a transmission rebuild site that a broken spring in the 3-4 accumulator can cause the truck to feel like it's starting out in 2nd or 3rd gear, although it doesn't mention anything about the TC being "Locked"

 

[BigPapa]

As mentioned in another thread that's active right now about a "Mystery Switch" to lock up the TC manually, all it takes to lock the TC is grounding the Orange/Black wire between Pin 11 Connector C2 (White) on the PCM and Pin 7 in the Transmission Connector.

 

[petersonj]

I believe that 4th gear (overdrive) and the converter lockup clutch are each controlled by two separate solenoids. From your description it almost sounds like the overdrive and converter lockup solenoids are both activated when you select a forward gear. I know, that sounds a bit crazy. Can you get a feel for which gear it is actually in by observing the tach?

- John

 

[Scott81]

As mentioned in another thread that's active right now about a "Mystery Switch" to lock up the TC manually, all it takes to lock the TC is grounding the Orange/Black wire between Pin 11 Connector C2 (White) on the PCM and Pin 7 in the Transmission Connector.

I noticed that Scott, but the problem is while troubleshooting I pulled the transmission control relay out and tried the thing out and the same thing happened. without the relay I'm not sure what is supposed to happen EG: are the solenoids normally closed or normally open valves that they control, I couldn't find an answer to that. All I know is when I pull the relay that supplies 12 volt power to all three solenoids the exact same symptoms do occur.

 

[Scott81]

I believe that 4th gear (overdrive) and the converter lockup clutch are each controlled by two separate solenoids. From your description it almost sounds like the overdrive and converter lockup solenoids are both activated when you select a forward gear. I know, that sounds a bit crazy. Can you get a feel for which gear it is actually in by observing the tach?

- John

Hi John, Yeah I noticed that also and it's hard to tell to be sure one might assume from a stop if the transmission is stuck in OD that it might seem like the TC is locked up, but maybe it's not. I mean from a start you would think that it might pull the engine down immediately even without the TC being locked up. I'm wondering if a broken spring in the 3-4 overdrive solenoid port could cause the issue?

 

[BigPapa]

when I pull the relay that supplies 12 volt power to all three solenoids the exact same symptoms do occur.

Very interesting.....

Without 12 volts to the solenoids, ELECTRICALLY the TC shouldn't lockup and it shouldn't shift into OD. That would lead me to a mechanical problem like the spring you mentioned.

Maybe cerberusiam, our resident transmission expert, will chime in.

 

[Scott81]

For sure BigPapa, I did find something worth mentioning. Tore back into the transmission again today, started doing some continuity testing and found what I think to be a problem.

So correct me if I'm wrong... there are a total of 8 wires that are leading to the transmission not including the neutral safety switch wires. The Red wire is from the transmission Relay and should be coming directly from the relay terminal that is switched. During the testing I found that the Blk/blu wire having full continuity to the battery terminal / not the relay switched wire but the battery terminal which supplies the relay. This wire is the sensor ground and leads directly to the Engine controls system... according to the wiring schematic I have.

I guess my only problem is.... WTF does that mean?? Not sure where to start trying to figure out if this is the source of the problem, where it's coming from etc... etc. Good gawd almighty!!

 

[Scott81]

Update... that wasn't it. Went back out and put 12V to the power circuit at the fuse box and it was a no-go. Weird why it showed up on continuity but nothing with voltage. Go figure.

 

[cerberusiam]

Unplug the wiring harness from the transmission, start it and put in gear. If it still dies the TC is bad, if not you have a problem in wiring somewhere.

 

[BigPapa]

There you go.

Thank you, sir.

 

[Scott81]

Unplug the wiring harness from the transmission, start it and put in gear. If it still dies the TC is bad, if not you have a problem in wiring somewhere.

Allrighty, now that I have the valve body out again... ahh such is life. Thanks much for the reply.

 

[Topzide]

Allrighty, now that I have the valve body out again... ahh such is life.

Sounds like that guy "Murphy" and his law follows you around also! Good luck with the R&R. Chasing gremlins around really sucks!

 

[2Farr]

Mint did the same thing till I changed the oil pressure sensor. Thee is a 5v wire comes off it to the ecm. If the voltage is not correct the engine will stall. Changed mine have not had a problem since. Found info on old TDR post.

 

[Scott81]

Mint did the same thing till I changed the oil pressure sensor. Thee is a 5v wire comes off it to the ecm. If the voltage is not correct the engine will stall. Changed mine have not had a problem since. Found info on old TDR post.

Hey 2Farr, it's most certainly not an engine "Stall" there is a noticeable shift into gear and the truck will literally lurch forward in an attempt to launch and it just dies. You can feel the engine load up. I can actually get it to drive if I jump into gear it will start moving forward I then drop into nuetral (as it's still moving) restart and drop into drive and off we go luggin along rolling coal... it's a sight to see no doubt.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Scott81]

Unplug the wiring harness from the transmission, start it and put in gear. If it still dies the TC is bad, if not you have a problem in wiring somewhere.

No difference when unplugging, but would reverse not be affected by a locked TC?

 

[cerberusiam]

Then it is a mechanical issue somewhere. Reverse is so abnormal that it *might* not exhibit the same tendencies. Do you feel an extra bump or really fime engagement in reverse?

95% of these type of failures is the TC but there are VB failures that can and will bleed pressure into the TCC apply circuit that applies the clutch. Depending on what gear and how much pressure the symptoms can vary. Ideally try a different VB before pulling the trans but that is frequently not possible either unless you want to buy one off of Ebay for testing purposes.

 

[Scott81]

Then it is a mechanical issue somewhere. Reverse is so abnormal that it *might* not exhibit the same tendencies. Do you feel an extra bump or really fime engagement in reverse?

95% of these type of failures is the TC but there are VB failures that can and will bleed pressure into the TCC apply circuit that applies the clutch. Depending on what gear and how much pressure the symptoms can vary. Ideally try a different VB before pulling the trans but that is frequently not possible either unless you want to buy one off of Ebay for testing purposes.

There is nothing abnormal in reverse at all feels perfectly normal. At times it just "feels" like it's starting out in OD but if the TC wasn't locked up that shouldn't matter it would just take awhile to get moving I would assume. Do you know of any troubleshooting tricks or tests I could run to find the glitch? Eg pressure or otherwise?

 

[cerberusiam]

If it doesn't kill the engine every time and when it doesn't it feels like you are starting out in a high gear that is likely the stator sprag clutch periodically hanging. If it starts out correctly sometimes it could be sprag clutch or possible the gov solenoid and transducer though that would kill the engine, it would just feel like it is starting out in high gear.

If every time it happens it kills the engine or if can get rolling it feels like you are in OD until you are to 30 mph or so and drives fine after that, TC.

The only thing you can check is gov pressure, there is no port to check TCC apply externally. If your gov pressure is not maxxed out when the problem happens, like 90-100 psi, then it is likely the TC. Problem is ATS has mucked with both the TC and VB, they are notorious for having QC issues with mods to both of those items.

You can pick up a VB on Ebay for less than $200 that will work, any 47\48RE VB will work, just maybe not shift exactly correct in a diesel. The VB in my 05 48RE is hybrid 47\48 because the pressure section cracked somewhere and it is near impossible to find pure 48RE parts. What it would tell you is if it is a VB problem or a TC problem.

 

[Scott81]

If it doesn't kill the engine every time and when it doesn't it feels like you are starting out in a high gear that is likely the stator sprag clutch periodically hanging. If it starts out correctly sometimes it could be sprag clutch or possible the gov solenoid and transducer though that would kill the engine, it would just feel like it is starting out in high gear.

If every time it happens it kills the engine or if can get rolling it feels like you are in OD until you are to 30 mph or so and drives fine after that, TC.

The only thing you can check is gov pressure, there is no port to check TCC apply externally. If your gov pressure is not maxxed out when the problem happens, like 90-100 psi, then it is likely the TC. Problem is ATS has mucked with both the TC and VB, they are notorious for having QC issues with mods to both of those items.

You can pick up a VB on Ebay for less than $200 that will work, any 47\48RE VB will work, just maybe not shift exactly correct in a diesel. The VB in my 05 48RE is hybrid 47\48 because the pressure section cracked somewhere and it is near impossible to find pure 48RE parts. What it would tell you is if it is a VB problem or a TC problem.

Roger that, thanks for the heads up and reply I guess a VB is the next investment, appreciate your insight.