1st Gen 5.9 timing procedure

[THeske]

Could one of you gent's please disclose the exact procedure for timing my VE pump, using the dial indicator method, Like where do I start the dial indicator readings from then by rotating the pump to get to say 1. 55 mm, something like that, I know I can't just put the dial indicator in and expect a reading that is any where close to what I need, I need a starting point! This thread is starting to confuse me even & I know what I'm looking for I hope It's clear as mud to you,

P. S. my timing pin is seized is there a way to even time this VE pump with

out being on on TDC according to the timing pin

 

[btoscano]

I wrote a paragraph on this a few weeks ago in a similar thread. You may want to search for it to see if I say it differently and more or less clear than here. Basically you set the motor at TDC and then insert the timing tool and preload to 2 mm. Turn the crank coununterclockwise until the dial indicator stops moving. This is the starting point. Set the timing tool to 2 mm preload again. Now turn the crank clockwise until exactly TDC. The dial indicator reading minus the 2 mm preload is your pump timing.



As far as the timing pin not useful, its no big deal. They aren't always said to be accurate anyway. I verified mine using the valve drop method. Then I installed a pointer on the timing case cover and set a mark on the crankshaft so I know where TDC is without using the timing pin.



Brian

 

[THeske]

Drop valve method

Brian/someone/anyone:



This drop valve method? enlighten me more on this! Which Valve? on which cylinder? I'm pesuming #1 cylinder & the exhuast valve just as it makes the fully closed condition, But dunno for sure, I was under the impression TDC was when the valve clearances intake/exhuast for #1 were at their largest gap . 010/. 020 respectively providing the valve were in spec clearances, I'll be sure to have a pointer/scribe mark on my crank pully this time around.







Thanks again Brian your on my Buddy list

 

[dpuckett]

The valves are closed at TDC and many degrees after or before, depending on which valve.



The valve drop method (if I am thinking of the right one) as outlined in the FSM involes finding #1 TDC with the timing pin.



2-back off about 30deg, and find a place to mark the damper, or make a marker, as Brian mentioned. (I line it up with the belt as I look down the plane of the belt)

3- tighten #1 intake valve adjusting nut 2 full turns TIGHTER

4-turn engine carefully til the piston hits the valve. Mark damper in relation to your marker.

5- reverse rotation til piston hits valve again. Mark your damper again.



Halfway between these 2 marks (in relation to your marker) is true TDC for #1 cylinder, when turning in direction of engine rotation. You are ready to proceed and set your timing.



When Brian talks about setting a 2mm preload, I have zeroed the dial indicator for simplicity. Otherwise, I'd see 3. 55mm? HOLY CRAP



Daniel

 

[THeske]

Thanks for the clarity on this matter Daniel,

 

[btoscano]

The reason for the preload, i. e. 2 mm, is to give you a measurable baseline to know that the dial indicator is still making contact with the pump. Your example is correct, it does require knowing that a 3. 55 mm reading really means 1. 55 mm of lift with a 2 mm preload.



Brian

 

[THeske]

Thanks Brian/Daniel, You've both clairified this question because I was wondering the same about why not just zero dial indicator,

Thanks partners



Terry

 

[THeske]

I'm puzzled fella's, I've done this valve drop procedure about half a dozen times now with the same results, so I will assume that I have found TDC of my 5. 9 cummins, But this is what doesn't jive, I'm trying to time the IP using the dial indicator method, my stock settings are 1. 45 mm on a 804CPL engine, I've installed some POD injectors that retard the timing because of higher pop pressures, If I time the pump to 1. 7mm using the dial indicator and compare that to the timing marks on the pump/case the marks are only about 1/16" apart, So what is this 1/8th of an inch everyone talks about that would put my timing at close to 1. 9 mm, What is the safe timing in mm limit on a 1990 5. 9 cummins, The pump has not been changed so yes the marks on the IP/case are factory marks,

 

[dpuckett]

I noticed the same thing on my nonIC 91- 1/8" above stock marks gave me about 2. 05mm. It is possible you had some advance from stock from the factory, or the timing pin isnt accurate, and if they used that for TDC, it will be off.



I'd say with PODs, go to around 1. 65-1. 8, depending on turbo, pump settings, and your desires for power and performance. More timing will increase power across the board to a point, then you start to lose bottom end torque.



DP

 

[btoscano]

Every pump is different. Most say mine should run well at 1/8" or 1. 65 mm but it runs much better at 1. 4mm. I have heard that POD's like as much timing as you can give them, but I have no experience with POD's to verify. When it comes to mods there are no certainties except that you will be spendig time tweaking your setup to maximize the benefits.



Brian

 

[TBurow]

how can you tell if you have too much timing? the more i turn up the timing the louder it rattles at idle and the more power it has, but i dont want to blow it up. is there a way to time it without the dial indicator?

 

[btoscano]

Enough rattling will cause the head gasket to blow. Don't try to reach high boost pressures until the engine is at operating temperature. A lot of guys just use their ears to set timing. When it sounds right, the timing is probably right. Generally on here they say with PODs push it as far to the head as it will go, the PODs need all the timing they can get. They also generally say push it towards the head until it starts pining and then turn it back some so it stops doing that. You can make these adjustments with the engine idiling away to hear the changes you are making.



Brian