1st generation cold starting problems

[thartmann]

I am new to the Cummins but having a couple of powerstrokes not new to diesels. I have a '92 5. 9L in an RV chassis. It is already starting really hard and it is only down to

30 degrees. Batteries are good in fact I can hit with all 4 batteries at one time and it spins fast. I hold the throttle open

about 1/4th down and it eventually starts but It's not going to

when it gets down-10! It has a block heater and then looks like the only cold start aid it has. What gives? I looked at the 3" square intake for a grid heater but no wires or terminals anywhere.



Of course, no glow plugs or even remote ether start. My understanding is that these things use grid heat already at 59 deg and down. The big solenoid on the injection pump appears to be the fuel shut off since it cuts the motor out immediatly upon disconnecting the harness. Any suggestions/comments or info as to how they could have possibly expected this thing to start in the cold?



Thanks much for any and all suggestions!



TC

 

[Philip]

This thread has a pic of one side of our heater system. I am not sure what the mfg of your camper would use if anything from the way you have talked. Your only option might be a eather kit for cold weather starting.



The pic is on page three if this link takes you to the first p age.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...&perpage=15&highlight=glow plugs&pagenumber=3

 

[thartmann]

Thanks for the thread reference--

That's about what I would expect it to look like but I only have a spacer similiar to what you show and no heater, terminals, bracket etc. It looks like if I want it to start, I am going to have to either go remote ether or the grid heater with all the control electronics. Does anyone know if the grid heater will burn out if you apply power longer than say 10-15 seconds? I would imagine it will but I could use a time delay relay driving a starter

solenoid for the high power relay and at least eliminate why I would guess is an expensive control box.

Tom

 

[Philip]

If you go threw the same thread there is a aftermarket part number for the relays that Dodge uses for the heater grind. About the most you would need is around 15 seconds at 20 below to fire it right up. Or that is about the longest mine stays on for that temp. But they will cycle till the engine comes up to around 50 or so. You could fire it with a after market timer. But you would need to set the on delay timers everytime. For a different outside temp would need a different period between on periods.



There is an aftermarket alarm system that has a built in delay setup for use with our diesels. It also has some outputs for other items. You might check into somethig like this for you app to fire the heaters.



I'll have to get a hold of a nephew to find the name of the company that makes this alarm controller. I have forgotten.

 

[R.E. Miller]

thartmann, I don't know how long you have had your cummins, but it sounds like you have one that has no cold start aid. For whatever reason, people spec their engines without any cold start aid. Penske does not have any grid heaters in their trucks, they have aftermarket ether start systems that work fine. Question: Do you get a ton of white smoke when you are trying to start it? If so that is acceptable news if you don't have a cold start aid. If you have no smoke, I would think that you have another issue on top of not having grid heaters or ether. I work on these engines every day, and it is weird to see the b's that sneak through the cracks so to speak with no cold start aid. KoldBan.com (I think makes the aftermarket ether system that might help you. )



Good luck,

Russell

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I agree, I've never seen one without the cold start system. That don't mean they aren't out there, but I've never heard of it.

The manifold heaters will cycle for approx. 17-18 seconds at -18F,

at or below -26F they go for a full 20 seconds if they are working right.

This thread suggests that a couple good pics of the engine/manifold/heater relay(s) is in order..... hmmm...





bob.

 

[JLEONARD]

Lots of mornings at 30 F and below I do not wait for the grid heater to cycle.

I just barely touch the key and she fires right up!

I do not open the throttle at all.

 

[Grey Wolf]

My son and I put a '96 engine in his '90 and it came without the manifold heater on it. It came out of a FedEx truck. Like R. E. Miller said not all the larger vehicles are using the heater.

 

[thartmann]

Well, I guess that answers that. It simply was ordered by the RV manufacturer (Coachmen) with no cold start Aids--What'daya expect from an RV MFG! It does smoke real good when and if

you can cold start it so I think everything is ok--there is only 28k miles on it. I think I will opt for the the ether start--thanks for the tip on it. I figure that this thing will get such few cold weather starts that ether will be the cheaper way to go plus I'll save that 190amps x 20 seconds of power to crank the motor instead of heating air. In a Pickup with lots of starts I would opt for the manifold heater but I think ether makes more sense in an RV---maybe that's what Coachmen thought too but it just never got the ether set up installed! Thanks for all the good info! I am out... After I get the ether installed I'll try and remember to post results.

 

[R.E. Miller]

The new ether start systems are really nice, you don't even know they are there... . until the can is empty Another nice feature... . they use so little ether per start because of directally injecting it into the intake, it is not like the old days of smelling a potentially explosive situation from a mile away as the farm next door trys to fire-up their tractor



Russell

 

[Tim1]

cold start

Hey TC, you could install the grid heater and manually hold it on for 15 sec with a heavy duty relay and a push button switch. You may have to help it from time to time with a push in the switch, but it would work just fine, i think. Not a difficult wiring chore, just parts. If you need help with the wiring of such a project, e-mail me and I will send you a drawing. Tim

 

[thartmann]

Tim1- I gave good consideration to installing the Grid heater, in fact I am an electronic engineer by trade and thought about actually building up a temp controlled timer but then came to my senses an figured "hey if Penske uses ether I might as well too. "

I may use this thing for snowmobiling and l kinda like the secure feeling of ether. Plus, it just will not get many starts in an entire season---different approach then if it was your daily use vehicle.

I should find out though how much the grid heater costs since

I guess it would be more "conventional. " TC